x3mcam 0 #1 April 22, 2002 Is it true that the Cobalt is made from cheaper or lesser quality zero-p fabric than for instance PD canopies?Any other comments or ideas of the canopy...?I'm flying camera and wish to get a SLOW, but straight opening canopy to save my neck...Tomppa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #2 April 22, 2002 I love mine... ordering a smaller one a bit later today actually... The Fabric is made by a different company then who PD uses. Its a non slick ZP that is a dream to pack and accourding to Atair canopies are getting close to 3000 jumps and still are really low porisity. A quick search of the archives up here will yield a TON of opinions on the Cobalt.My openings are about 800 feet constantly and i can look up and film all of them. I'll digitize some video of the openings and post links later today. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bhale 0 #3 April 22, 2002 I can hardly wait for Dan to reply to this one. While the fabric is different, to say it is "cheaper" could make one question the quality. The fabric is fantastic, great to pack, and certainly as good as PD's. I have one Cobalt, jumping it now, and one on the way. Hey Dan, I getting anxious!! These canopies are the BEST!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GrumpySmurf 0 #4 April 22, 2002 So would you guys say it has a PD flare or an Icarus flare in terms of the sweet spot - I normally fly a Safire 169 and tried out a Sabre 2 170 (after learning on them about 9 months ago) over the weekend and was shocked at the difference (forgot how spoilt I was on the Sabre2). Anyways, which flare technique would the Cobalt more akin to? Have a 170 Cobalt demo still on order (it's a bit late) and emailed Atair that if the dealer still needs the 170, to ship a 150 out for me try (and I'll find a big field of freshly plowed dirt to land in for the first time Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhreeZone 20 #5 April 22, 2002 Its more of a hybrid of the flares... long toggle like the Icarus... but snappy and responsive like the PD. I think it is just perfect for those with long arms.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cobaltdan 0 #6 April 22, 2002 from the faq page on our web site: http://www.extremefly.com/aerodynamics/FAQ.html#nine"What type of material is used to make your canopies?We use Gelvenor fabric. It is more costly than domestic sources used by PD and Icarus but it packs better, has less than 1% defects on arrival at our factory, and so far has outlasted every other brand we have tried. It is a perfect square weave and is the only material to our knowledge which is treated on both sides."sincerely,dan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bhale 0 #7 April 22, 2002 It is most comparable to a Stilletto, in the PD family. The great thing about the Cobalt is the ability to use ALL the flare range without fear of stalling. Plane it out, keep those feet up, and let it fly.Skymonkey one, give up the advice! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AndyMan 7 #8 April 22, 2002 Their website states they use Gelvenor fabric, which is the same fabric used by Aerodyne and Pisa. It is not the same as PD or Precision, which use duPont fabric with a coating from Performance Textiles.Anecdotal evidence says that Gelvenor fabric does not last as long as duPont fabric does, but this is always a fun debate.Anecdotal evidence shows both fabrics lasting into the "thousands of jumps" range, with the duPont having slightly bigger numbers in the first or second column._AmICQ: 5578907MSN Messenger: andrewdmetcalfe at hotmail dot com AIM: andrewdmetcalfeYahoo IM: ametcalf_1999 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites x3mcam 0 #9 April 23, 2002 Yup!That's what I've heard too. But...I'm not really sure I'll jump the canopy more than a thousand or so...I'm still quite green in this sport (600 jumps, 3 years), so I'll probably still downsize.Any recommendations on wingloading? I'm currently jumping a Sabre loaded at 1,6The bad thing about it all is that the canopy sounds like a good one, but here in Finland I can't jump one, since there aren't even demos here...damn!Tomppa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhreeZone 20 #10 April 23, 2002 See if you can find an Impluse, Space, Atair Alpha to demo. They are pretty much the same design with the Cobalt being the newest revision of the canopy with some tweeks....If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Jussi 0 #11 April 23, 2002 There is one Cobalt 95 in Jyväskylä, in Utti is Impulse 100 (mine), and i believe that there are Impulses in your club also..try them.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkymonkeyONE 4 #12 April 23, 2002 The flare is different on every single parachute I have ever jumped, period. Cobalts, as a whole, have long toggle range and tremendous lift which will keep you afloat at much slower airspeeds, thusly increasing your usable surf distance. Slow down any other performance main to anything nearly as slow without planting your feet down and it's going to bowtie and drop you on your ass. The Cobalt is a very user friendly main to learn to swoop on. It is also very competitive in meets at the wingloads we compete under (from 2.2 to as high as 2.8) We have jumped them much heavier "just to see", but you reach a point of diminishing returns at anything above about 2.4. Everyone on my team competes at either a 2.2 or 2.3 wingload (as do all of the team extreme guys). ChuckMy webpage HERE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites x3mcam 0 #13 April 24, 2002 Thanks 4 the input!How about the front risers?- Does it level out from a hook by itself, or do you need to level it out from the toggles?-How steep is the dive?thanksTomppa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkymonkeyONE 4 #14 April 24, 2002 "steepness" of dive is regulated by the amount of riser input one applies. Front riser pressure on a Cobalt is not that heavy and it's not hard to keep a set of double fronts held down. The recovery arc of a stock Cobalt is greater than that of a Stilleto, but less than that of a Velocity. A Competition Cobalt dives like a Velocity.ChuckMy webpage HERE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites zyzko 0 #15 April 28, 2002 Hello Tomppa,I am the very pleased owner of a (AFAIK the only one in Finland) Cobalt 95. If you have any questions about the Cobalt I am happy to answer - drop me an email if you wish to try my canopy, I can probably arrange a trip to Malmi or come visit us at Jyväskylä - hopefully we have a new shining jumpship within a week or two :)-Kari A. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
PhreeZone 20 #5 April 22, 2002 Its more of a hybrid of the flares... long toggle like the Icarus... but snappy and responsive like the PD. I think it is just perfect for those with long arms.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cobaltdan 0 #6 April 22, 2002 from the faq page on our web site: http://www.extremefly.com/aerodynamics/FAQ.html#nine"What type of material is used to make your canopies?We use Gelvenor fabric. It is more costly than domestic sources used by PD and Icarus but it packs better, has less than 1% defects on arrival at our factory, and so far has outlasted every other brand we have tried. It is a perfect square weave and is the only material to our knowledge which is treated on both sides."sincerely,dan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bhale 0 #7 April 22, 2002 It is most comparable to a Stilletto, in the PD family. The great thing about the Cobalt is the ability to use ALL the flare range without fear of stalling. Plane it out, keep those feet up, and let it fly.Skymonkey one, give up the advice! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #8 April 22, 2002 Their website states they use Gelvenor fabric, which is the same fabric used by Aerodyne and Pisa. It is not the same as PD or Precision, which use duPont fabric with a coating from Performance Textiles.Anecdotal evidence says that Gelvenor fabric does not last as long as duPont fabric does, but this is always a fun debate.Anecdotal evidence shows both fabrics lasting into the "thousands of jumps" range, with the duPont having slightly bigger numbers in the first or second column._AmICQ: 5578907MSN Messenger: andrewdmetcalfe at hotmail dot com AIM: andrewdmetcalfeYahoo IM: ametcalf_1999 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
x3mcam 0 #9 April 23, 2002 Yup!That's what I've heard too. But...I'm not really sure I'll jump the canopy more than a thousand or so...I'm still quite green in this sport (600 jumps, 3 years), so I'll probably still downsize.Any recommendations on wingloading? I'm currently jumping a Sabre loaded at 1,6The bad thing about it all is that the canopy sounds like a good one, but here in Finland I can't jump one, since there aren't even demos here...damn!Tomppa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #10 April 23, 2002 See if you can find an Impluse, Space, Atair Alpha to demo. They are pretty much the same design with the Cobalt being the newest revision of the canopy with some tweeks....If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jussi 0 #11 April 23, 2002 There is one Cobalt 95 in Jyväskylä, in Utti is Impulse 100 (mine), and i believe that there are Impulses in your club also..try them.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 4 #12 April 23, 2002 The flare is different on every single parachute I have ever jumped, period. Cobalts, as a whole, have long toggle range and tremendous lift which will keep you afloat at much slower airspeeds, thusly increasing your usable surf distance. Slow down any other performance main to anything nearly as slow without planting your feet down and it's going to bowtie and drop you on your ass. The Cobalt is a very user friendly main to learn to swoop on. It is also very competitive in meets at the wingloads we compete under (from 2.2 to as high as 2.8) We have jumped them much heavier "just to see", but you reach a point of diminishing returns at anything above about 2.4. Everyone on my team competes at either a 2.2 or 2.3 wingload (as do all of the team extreme guys). ChuckMy webpage HERE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
x3mcam 0 #13 April 24, 2002 Thanks 4 the input!How about the front risers?- Does it level out from a hook by itself, or do you need to level it out from the toggles?-How steep is the dive?thanksTomppa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 4 #14 April 24, 2002 "steepness" of dive is regulated by the amount of riser input one applies. Front riser pressure on a Cobalt is not that heavy and it's not hard to keep a set of double fronts held down. The recovery arc of a stock Cobalt is greater than that of a Stilleto, but less than that of a Velocity. A Competition Cobalt dives like a Velocity.ChuckMy webpage HERE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zyzko 0 #15 April 28, 2002 Hello Tomppa,I am the very pleased owner of a (AFAIK the only one in Finland) Cobalt 95. If you have any questions about the Cobalt I am happy to answer - drop me an email if you wish to try my canopy, I can probably arrange a trip to Malmi or come visit us at Jyväskylä - hopefully we have a new shining jumpship within a week or two :)-Kari A. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
