demo reserve?

[beintema 0]

Everyone wants to demo their main before they get one, but people don't seem to be too worried about their reserves... I don't get it. If there's one canopy I'd like to be sure I can land it would be my reserve!!!
So I was wondering if there are demo-programs for reserves? Or information on how they compare to main canopies?
I have a micro-raven 135, I've never seen it out of the container. All I know is it's black, and it is a F-111 7-cell if I'm not mistaken.
Would it be a bit like a Spectre 135?
Kikidi

[SkydiveMonkey 0]

good point. I think the reserve is more of a "get you down safely" canopy, so there isn't much demand for testing out it's characteristics. How often do you jump it? Never hopefully.
Danger could be my middle name. But it's Paul.

[beintema 0]

I was wondering cos many people (including myself) have rather small reserves (not much bigger than the main). I'd just like to know how much glide it has and how good it flares.

[SkydiveMonkey 0]

I think after chopping a main, I'd just be pleased to have a working canopy over my head, don't care if I land like a sack of s***.
Danger could be my middle name. But it's Paul.

[cobaltdan 0]

i fully agree with you. there is always a debate with someone as to what size reserve they should jump. i have always suggested to demo a reserve if you are unsure of proper sizing and to learn their flight characteristics. its much better to jump a reserve under controlled circumstances than do so for the first time in a potentialy bad situation.
i have intentionally jumped the following reserves: atair quick 110, pd 113, pd 126, strong 120, tempo 120 & micro ravens.
i can definately tell you there is a huge difference between brands. both in construction, design, flight performance and actual wing size.
sincerely,
dan

[AggieDave 6]

At the bigger boogies, PD will sometimes show up and have reserves on normal risers for you to go out and do hop-n-pops with. Funny thing is that they usually sale a lot of reserves when they do that, since people find out what they really need/want.
A human cannonball, I rise above it all
Up higher then a trapeze, I can fly

[councilman24 37]

Short answer is it will not be like a spectre 135 even when the reserve is new. I suggest in the absence of actually jumping a reserve, which I recommend, you find the nearest 0-3 CFM fabric (generic reference to trademark F-111) and jump it. It may be a wore out Firelight, Maverick or Raven 1. But it will give you an idea of the difference between a high performance ZP 7 cell and an older rectangular airfoil 7 cell "F-111" reserve. When Ravens were marketed as mains and reserves they mandated that a canopy used as a main could not be installed as a reserve, with the exception of making a one test jump on a canopy going in as a reserve. Haven't heard recent policy, of course Dash M's don't have bridle attachment points. Demoing a reserve would take a special model with a bridle attachment unless you wanted to chase a free bag. In the desert that might not be so bad. In the woods or the swamp might be a little tougher.

[skybytch 273]

Quote

So I was wondering if there are demo-programs for reserves?

If you ever come out to Perris, Square 1 has PD reserves set up as mains that you can jump. I _think_ PD will send out demo reserves set up the same way. Not sure if Precision offers the same thing... Ask around at your dz, it's possible someone has an MR135 somewhere that you can jump - the standard Ravens have main attachment points and can be jumped as mains.

Quote

Would it be a bit like a Spectre 135?

imho the only similarity between a Spectre and a Raven is that they both have seven cells. How the Raven will fly and land depends on your wing loading - I've jumped Ravens loaded at up to about .9 and they flew and landed fine, but the flare was nowhere near as good as on my Spectre loaded at 1.0.
pull & flare,
lisa
[subliminal msg]My website Go Now[/subliminal msg]

[riggerrob 643]

A few Amigo reserves were set up as demos. I liked the demo Amigo 206 so much that I bought an Amigo 172 reserve.
A few other manufacturers (ie. PD have similar programs). Demo reserves are available from the factories or major dealers (ie. Square One).
The difficulty with comparing mains and reserves is that hardly anyone buys rectangular, 7-cell mains anymore. The only rectangular, 7-cell main still selling in significant numbers is the Triathlon. If you want a rough idea of how an "X" square foot reserve flies, jump a similar-sized Triathlon.

[billbooth 10]

Kikidi;
If you think the difference in performance between main and reserve canopies is a problem now, just go back a few years when we were all jumping square mains with ROUND reserves. And many jumpers had never jumped a round before. Talk about fear factor. You guys have it easy nowadays.
One problem with reserve demos is that the low porosity fabric that is now available is not nearly as "good" as F-111 used to be, and canopies made of it "rag out" after not too many jumps. As a matter of fact, research, especially the Belgian Army study, shows that pack jobs on F-111 type canopies affect the porosity even more than jumps. That's why PD wants your reserve back for a porosity check after 40 pack jobs, whether you have jumped it or not. So a demo reserve with hundreds of jumps on it would probably not make a very good impression, would it. However, I just talked to Bill Coe of Performance Designs, and he said that his company does ship out demo reserves, on main risers, which they retire (turn into car covers) before they get too many jumps on them.
Bill

[billvon 3,031]

>I think after chopping a main, I'd just be pleased to have a working canopy
>over my head, don't care if I land like a sack of s***.
Well, malfunctions happen between 1 in 300 jumps and 1 in 800 jumps - do you really want your jumping career to be over after 500 jumps because of a broken back?
It's easy to forget, in this day and age of ultra high performance mains, tiny containers, and flexy harnesses, that the #1 job of your rig is to get you safely back to the ground. If you choose a reserve that won't do that under most conditions, you have chosen gear poorly. I would recommend that you do not buy a smaller reserve than you have landed before. A triathalon is somewhat similar to a reserve (although somewhat higher performance) so if you can land a Tri-135 a MR135 might be a good choice. The best way to decide is, of course, to actually go out and jump the reserve you plan to buy. As you are flying it, ask yourself - could I land this if I cut away low over trees? After a canopy wrap? On bad terrain? If the answer to all those questions is yes, that reserve size is a good choice.
All other things being equal, going larger on your reserve is always almost a good decision.
-bill von

[SkydiveMonkey 0]

that's why I've got a reserve the same size as my main. I've seen combos like Fury 220 with a 143 reserve - I wouldn't like to jump that !! too much difference
Danger could be my middle name. But it's Paul.

[Danger 0]

Other questions that people should ask themselves before buying a small reserve are:
"Can I land this with one good arm?" - after collision
"How will this canopy land with me unconscious under it?" - after collision
"How will this canopy land downwind?" - opened low, no time to turn.
"How will this canopy land with no flare?" - multiple scenarios
Stay close to the manufacturers recommended exit weight and NOT the TSO testing weight.
I fully agree with billvon "going larger on your reserve is always" "a good decision".
Danger

[SkydiveMonkey 0]

Quote

going larger on your reserve is always" "a good decision

What about in a 2 out situation? It'd be better to have them the same size then wouldn't it?
Danger could be my middle name. But it's Paul.

[PhreeZone 20]

Are you more likely to find your self in a 2 out or just under it? I think that most people will find they just use in and rarely have a 2 out....
If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will....

[skycat 0]

Quote

Are you more likely to find your self in a 2 out or just under it? I think that most people will find they just use in and rarely have a 2 out....

Well maybe it is time you guys started bugging hooknswoop to do somemore 2 out tests with tiny mains. If I remember right (it's posted around here somwhere) the PD 170 vs the stiletto 97 test actually flew just fine together.

[billvon 3,031]

>What about in a 2 out situation? It'd be better to have them the same size then
> wouldn't it?
a) that's rare
b) Derek did some tests, and radically smaller mains seem to fly just fine with larger reserves
c) unless you have some CRW experience, hoping that you'll be better able to handle two canopies just because they are the same size is sorta wishful thinking.
99% of the time, your reserve will appear without a simultaneous deployment of your main. The #1 concern is to get a canopy that will land you well under those conditions. Getting a canopy that will fly well with your main should be a very secondary consideration.
-bill von