A12 0 #1 July 3, 2002 I am in the process of getting my class A license. I am currently learning on a Manta Canopy but I am curious about what chute would make a good learning chute after I get my license. I remember hearing someone mention that the Manta was a difficult chute to learn all the things that I will need to do for my later licenses. So...I am looking for a beginner chute that will allow me the versatility for achieving my license while still be good enough for me while I build up my experience. Thanks! If you want to fly, get out of the plane! My Homepage My Blogger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #2 July 3, 2002 Why do people come here for answers and not to their jumpmasters and S&TAs? Anyhow, the standard answer is that you want a docile parachute loaded at anywhere between .8:1 and 1:1. Some 9 cell parachutes to look at are: * PD 1XX * Sabre * Sabre 2 * Safire Some 7 cell parachites to look at are: * Spectre * Triathalon * Omni * Omega 9 cell parachutes traditionally have more glide, this might make it easier to get back from a long spot. 7 cell parachutes traditionally have less glide, making a bit more difficult to get back from the long spot. Each have their advantages and their disadvantages. Do yourself a favor and try to fly as many canopies as you can before you buy. The best thing you can do right now is to ask your jumpmasters, S&TAs, and people you respect at your DZ. The people here haven't seen you fly and are really in no position to recommend a specific parachute for you. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weid14 0 #3 July 3, 2002 Jim, that was an excellent reply. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 273 #4 July 3, 2002 QuoteJim, that was an excellent reply. Yes it was. (I can't believe I just said that... ) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
A12 0 #5 July 3, 2002 I have asked my jumpmasters, but I find information is information, the more I have the better. I was strictly looking for others opinions. Nothing more. If you want to fly, get out of the plane! My Homepage My Blogger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #6 July 3, 2002 QuoteYes it was. (I can't believe I just said that... ) I just do it to drive you nuts Lisa. Don't worry, I'll recommend a 28" pilot chute to the next one. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drenaline 0 #7 July 3, 2002 Be sure to get a ZP. Read all the reviews on the canopies that Jimbo posted (the dz.com reviews are great) and you should have a good sight of what you want/need. I read a lot of reviews and ended up with the spectre cause of the soft opening (almost broke my neck years ago so I couldn't afford a hard opening canopy), its very good canopy and easy to pack and people prefer 7cell for CReW (you can keep it for CReW when you downsize again). HISPA 21 www.panamafreefall.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kirils 1 #8 July 3, 2002 Check out the Hornet. It's an ol' reliable good performer and it's priced right. But get with your JM, run it by him about sizing. Take everything here about canopy recommendations with a grain of salt. Your Instructor/JM is the first line of advice!"Slow down! You are too young to be moving that fast!" Old Man Crawfish Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JJohnson 0 #9 July 3, 2002 I would add the PD Silohuette to that list. F111 fabric/ZP hybrid. Easy to pack, forgiving and fun to fly. Not as high performance as a Safire or Sabre2. JJJJ "Call me Darth Balls" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cornholio 0 #10 July 3, 2002 QuoteJim, that was an excellent reply. Yeah, I'm going to Cut and Paste it into other threads now that I know the answer. Butthead: Whoa! Burritos for breakfast! Beavis: Yeah! Yeah! Cool! bellyflier on the dz.com hybrid record jump Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cockroach 0 #11 July 3, 2002 What about a Cobolt a nice canopy for "every" skill level, but with a wingloading from 1.2 until 4.5 (under 1.2 not recomended)!!!! There are a lot of specialists in this forum who fly this world best all-round canopy... cockroach #514 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #12 July 3, 2002 I fly a Cobalt loaded at 1.2 and its not an entry loading. I've seen them jumped at a lower loading just fine. If you want a Cobalt, and I'm sure CobaltDan will disagree, get one in a .9 wingloading and no higher. A Coblt is a good second or third canopy, not so much a good first one unless the person is recieving direct coaching on every jump from an expert on the canopy. Personally, my favorite entry chutes are the Sabre2, Hornet, Spectre, Lotus and if you are thinking eventually you want to do demos a Silohette would work nicely. I'm yet to jump a Safire2 so I haave no opinion on it. A Strong ZP-O can work too. Avoid the Stiletto, Vengence, Extremes, Velocity, Samuari and anything that has crossbraces as entry canopies.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nicknitro71 0 #13 July 3, 2002 Hornet.Memento Audere Semper 903 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JJohnson 0 #14 July 3, 2002 Do I note a hint of Atair bashing? With as anonymous of a profile as yours, bashing any product holds no validity. The Cobalt is a damn fine all around canopy, I love my mine. But a student with 20 jumps does not need to be under one. JJJJ "Call me Darth Balls" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crazy 0 #15 July 4, 2002 QuoteIf you want a Cobalt, and I'm sure CobaltDan will disagree, get one in a .9 wingloading and no higher. If atair recommends a minimum wing loading of 1.2 there is probably a good reason. bb Come Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crazy 0 #16 July 4, 2002 Quote I would add the PD Silohuette to that list. F111 fabric/ZP hybrid. Easy to pack, forgiving and fun to fly. Not as high performance as a Safire or Sabre2. I definitely second this opinion. F111/ZP hybrids are excellent beginners canopies. In some countries it is the favored choice as a first canopy. The Electra from Parachute de France is even comonly used by intermediate skydivers, or even by experienced conservative pilots. bb Come-- Come Skydive Asia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cockroach 0 #17 July 5, 2002 Sorry but isn't the cobalt a F111/ZP canopy? There is also a guy in this forum always advertising this canopy and I think there is even a fan-club here. I just had a quick look at the canopy in Perris but on this one they even forgot to make holes in the 3rd and 6th cell... Strange I thought this canopies would be produced more carefully..... But if people buy this then it has to be good, right? cockroach #514 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #18 July 5, 2002 For everyone that is confused about the Cobalt.... ignore what Cockroach is posting. The Cobalt is a full ZP Elliptical canopy that has no/limited crossports in the 3rd and 6th cell on purpose similar to some BASE canopies. The no crossports are what give it its unique openings. Its a unique canopy to fly and if you want details on that aspect contact me via PM's. Fan club? Doubt that there is any more of a Cobalt fan club then a Sabre2 or Safire or Extreme clubs... Everyone likes their canopy and most people want everyone else to be flying what they chose as their canopy. As for the anon postings... If you don't gave the guts to stand behind your words then don't post them for all to see.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cockroach 0 #19 July 5, 2002 thank you for all the informations now I see a little bit clearer.. ____________________________________________ The Cobalt is a full ZP Elliptical canopy that has no/limited crossports in the 3rd and 6th cell on purpose similar to some BASE canopies. The no crossports are what give it its unique openings. ____________________________________________ Aha the Cobalt is a BASE canopy, no wonder why people complaining about the hard opening when they skydive with that canopy and deploy at ter. vel.. I have to admit that I haven't seen any elliptical 9cell BASE canopies. _______________________________________________ Fan club? Doubt that there is any more of a Cobalt fan club then a Sabre2 or Safire or Extreme clubs... Everyone likes their canopy and most people want everyone else to be flying what they chose as their canopy. _______________________________________________ I have the impression that people from other fanclubs are a little bit more sceptic about their canopies and don't take criticism personal. cockroach #514 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #20 July 5, 2002 QuoteThe Cobalt is a full ZP Elliptical canopy that has no/limited crossports in the 3rd and 6th cell on purpose similar to some BASE canopies. Danger! Jumping a BASE canopy with limited or no crossports would be potentially fatal. A BASE canopy intentionally designed in such a way would be a DEATH MACHINE. If you have one like that, send it back to the manufacturer right now--it was made incorrectly. Crossporting is critical to BASE openings. All purpose built BASE canopies have triple crossports (more than most skydiving canopies), some even have additional "triplet" crossports, which, in my opinion, promote faster and cleaner openings. The multi-staged Cobalt opening is (I believe) intended to slow the opening in case of high speed (i.e. head-down) deployment. Slow openings are not desireable in the BASE environment. Sorry if I sound like a condescending ass here, but seriously, if you've seen a BASE canopy without crossporting, it had to be a manufacturing error.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crazy 0 #21 July 5, 2002 QuoteAha the Cobalt is a BASE canopy That's a Troll. Another excellent product from Atair. Don't mix Trolls up with Cobolts. bb Come-- Come Skydive Asia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #22 July 5, 2002 QuoteThat's a Troll. Another excellent product from Atair. Do you jump a Troll? I've got 63 jumps on mine now, and it gives me the worst slider down openings I've had since I Vteced my FOX. Do you have any advice on getting better openings from it? I love the way it flies and lands, but the 15 seconds after opening are the real critical safety window, and I've had quite poor performance form it there. Can you help me?-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #23 July 5, 2002 Tom... you'll probally get better answers on the BASE canopies from the Base board. And call Dan at Atair for questions about the canopies, Troll or Cobalt. I've found him to be extremely insightful into the canopies and how to get more out of them. Disclaimer I've never Base'd yet....Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #24 July 5, 2002 QuoteYou'll probally get better answers on the BASE canopies from the Base board. You're probably right. I've had several long discussions on the BASE board, as well as with Morpheus (the Troll dealer in the U.S.), and several of Atair's original Troll test jumpers. I was just hoping that I could find some new insight here, when someone mentioned that they had good experiences with the canopy. QuoteAnd call Dan at Atair for questions about the canopies, Troll or Cobalt. Maybe I'll try to give Dan a call. Thanks!-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
