Skydiver Intercommunication

[L600DAN 0]

I am researching into the development of a device that will allow skydivers to communicate whilst in free-fall.

I would appreciate any comments regarding the usefulness and practicality of such a device.

Your help would be appreciated.

[PhillyKev 0]

Hand signals have always seemed to work for me. Don't really see a need for this. If you have a plan you should know what you should be doing anyway. Freefall is not the time to talk about things.

[PhreeZone 20]

What would the purpose of this device be? I don't want to hear someone talking while I'm trying to turn points and as a student training tool I'm seeing very few uses for it. I would'nt want some one screaming ARCH in my ear in freefall...

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[rendezvous 0]

I'd rather be thinking in free fall than making conversation. Can live without talking for a minute. Conversation in free fall will definitely distract me.

[nws01 0]

How about a chalkboard and chalk!

[JFC3 0]

While I agree with everyone here those who do crew may find it useful. But a simple VOX walkie-talkie could work in this situation.

Red Leader Standing by...

"Five days? But I'm angry now!"

[L600DAN 0]

OK, so the consensus seems to be that it would be of little or no use to most people.

What about the benefits to AFF Students? Surely an aid such as this would make it easier for instructors to communicate with them when they are mentally overloaded and not responding to OR not being able to see hand signals.

Also, for Free-fly coaches.... Because with free-flying, you are essentially flying multiple parts of your body, hand signals can get really complicated. Would this tool really not be of benefit to both parties?

I would of thought that a tool such as this would revolutionize the teaching and training methods within the sport, improve safety on multi-person fun jumps and possibly improve team performance through enhanced levels of communication.

Of course, I'm fairly new to this sport so forgive me if I am making too many assumptions. This is only my personal opinion.

I would love to hear your opinions.

[Scoby 0]

I, for one, would find it pretty cool to be able to chat under canopy. I agree that it wouldn't be much use in freefall, though.

[skybytch 273]

Quote

What about the benefits to AFF Students?

I believe Skydive Chicago was using some kind of in air radio set up for their students awhile back; I have no idea if they still are or what type of system it is/was. You might try contacting someone there for details.

[Kopko 0]

I think it would be fun to have in a big flock dive.

[hobbes4star 0]

help with the exit count.

if fun were easy it wouldn't be worth having, right?

[PhreeZone 20]

DON'T rely on the verbal count to exit... its all body position and movement are your keys to exit. The deaf can exit perfectly and never hear the count... you should be able to do the same.

Think of a 10 way jump with everyone able to talk.. then you hear a few "damn's" as grips are missed or yelling at someone as they go low or something... Great way to blow the focus on the jump.

In the student learning environment... If the student does'nt respond to hand signals.. Skydiving possibly is'nt for them and its a simple way to weed the week out.

Also any time you put electronics near a Cypres you could in theory build up enough EM to accidently fire the cypres. BillVon posted about a JM that was on the ground doing radio and triggered his cypres. I personally would'nt ever fly camera again above a formation that is using radios that increase the chances of a Cypres triggering and firing in my face.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[hobbes4star 0]

true true but it would still help on exit

if fun were easy it wouldn't be worth having, right?

[skybytch 273]

Quote

it would still help on exit

I have no problem hearing the exit count... I wear an open faced helmet.

[TomAiello 26]

I think you might be wasting the effort. I've rigged up a very effective system for under $100, straight off the shelf at Best Buy.

If you take a Motorola talkabout, and get the voice activated microphone and earpiece, you can easily put a full face helmet on over them (or if you want to be really fancy, you could install them into the helmet). The full face helmet cuts out most of the freefall wind noise, so communication becomes quite easy.

Although I've used them on jumps quite effectively, I have never tried one on a skydive, so I'd hesitate to recommend one there, due to potentially negative Cypress interactions. Still, if you did sufficient ground testing to insure you wouldn't set off the Cypress (should only take a few hours), you should be good to go for under 100 bucks a pop.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[christoofar 0]

Hmm.. if someone could come up with a "student helmet" with a headset that would be awesome.

Most of my radio coaching in AFF was botched because of slider noise (non-collapsables) and wind noise. Maybe the reserve JM could wear the same helmet and give verbal queues to the student if he/she fails a level?

____________________________________________________________
I'm RICK JAMES! Fo shizzle.

[rhino 0]

The Cobra 2 way radios have a pugin for a mic and ear buds. That would work under a helmet like a Z1???

[MarkM 0]

Quote

Hmm.. if someone could come up with a "student helmet" with a headset that would be awesome.

Most of my radio coaching in AFF was botched because of slider noise (non-collapsables) and wind noise. Maybe the reserve JM could wear the same helmet and give verbal queues to the student if he/she fails a level?

Did a couple DZs as a student and always had problems hearing the radio, except at one place. There they taped the radio to the top of the helmet, speaker facing down. I was always able to hear the radio at that dropzone.

[fudd 0]

I know bikers have radio devices to talk to eachother while riding. It should be possible to use them for skydiving to. The noise level must be about the same. I think it would be cool to be able to talk to others in freefall, and under canopy as well.
Who hasn't tried yelling what to do to a teammate with a brainlock
As for the cypres, they have now all been modified better protected against radio interference, but I would ask Airtech first before jumping with such a radio.
What about the risk of the radios interfering with the airplane intruments.
Someone turns on their radio and the exit light goes green. Hey! 20 people exit 4km off the dropzone and one REALLY ANGRY farmer...
---
The sky is the limit...or a playground!
---

There are only 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

[christoofar 0]

Those are 20 people who don't spot when they get out.

____________________________________________________________
I'm RICK JAMES! Fo shizzle.

[Danl 0]

People like what they are used to, and don't see the need for most innovations until they are available in their choice of designer colors.

A device for talking in freefall would have at least 3 uses:

1. Coaching, esp. freefly
2. Audio keys on bigger-way formations
3. Emergencies:
a. "Mike, your bridle is flapping in the wind!"
b. "Bad spot! Breakoff at 6000!"

[christoofar 0]

Hmm... maybe this isn't a good idea. I mean, you hear all the B.S. when you're on the ground all day and in the plane, but you gotta hear it when you're in the air, too? Maybe NOT such a good idea.

If a CRW dog is busy up in the stack and you can't get a hold of him for a course correction... do you just leave him a voicemail?

____________________________________________________________
I'm RICK JAMES! Fo shizzle.

[ltdiver 3]

Reply TomAiello

Quote

If you take a Motorola talkabout, and get the voice activated microphone and earpiece, you can easily put a full face helmet on over them (or if you want to be really fancy, you could install them into the helmet). The full face helmet cuts out most of the freefall wind noise, so communication becomes quite easy.

Then Christoofar reply

Quote

Hmm.. if someone could come up with a "student helmet" with a headset that would be awesome.

As an AFFI, I'd like to see my student's face. Expression of the eyes can tell an instructor alot about his/her student's state of mind. In the plane. In the door. During the freefall. In my opinion a full face helmet detracts significantly from this tool.

In addition, another added input to an already overloaded student's mind wouldn't calm them but would be something that would perchance overload them (especially on their very first jump).

However, for experienced skydivers who want to play with a new bitchin' toy, this would be fun at times!
ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[jumpy 0]

I was talking to one of the experienced guys at the drop zone today about a similar thing. He is seting up a similar system for canopy control jumps and stuff like that so that the student doesn't have to pay for 2 slots...etc...but he reckons that for a first jump student it wouldn't actually do much because under moments of high stress hearing is one of the first things to go. Just something to think about

[riggerrob 643]

Jumpy has a good point.
Scared students go deaf.
Deafness is closely followed by tunnel vision.
On the other hand, radios work well for steering students under canopy. Over the years I have worked at several DZs that use radios to steer first-timers back to the DZ. Most use one-way Motorola pagers in chest strap pockets. Most of the time they work well. The only problems are when construction companies use the same frequency.
Audio communication is good, but not perfect. I have lost count of how many students did not flare because they claimed that their radio went dead 100 feet before landing. The radio was still relaying commands, the problem was fear-related deafness.

Finally, I would like to hear the results of Chicago's experiments with helmet-mounted radios for freefall students. Freefall is such a difficult environment for communicating with students. The disadvantage of hand signals is that students have to memorize a series of new codes, then apply those codes while under tremendous stress. Many students have told me that they saw me holding my hand in front of their face, but they could not remember how a "V" for victory sign was related to leg position.
Some students are bound to respond better with a radio yelling ARCH" in their ear.
riggerrob
Instructor S/L, IAD, PFF and tandem