Fear of Spanking and new canopy purchase

[dterrick 0]

HELLLP! I'm falling at terminal and scared to pull cause it might hurt (again).

My Raven II (I know I know, what can I expect...all the Master Rigger mods have been made to soften the openings) now opens similar to a Sabre 210 that I used as a backup last skills camp.

As a former sports car racer I welcome the leg-numbing G forces of a good spiral but it's just too much work to do regularly under a tired 7 cell. As of yet, I'm not stuck on the idea of big swoops (but after I get a little taste...) I'm more concerned with PREDICTABLE openings and serious performance when I go on a hop'n pop from altitude.

Here's my question(s) to you all...

1) Has anyone else jumped from 7 cell F-111 to 170 class 9 cell zero-P (any canopy) and what are your comments?

2) Sabres are easy to find and reasonably priced used, but Sabre 2's are not (yet). Who could offer an alternative to the comment that "the Sabre 2 is like a Stiletto with the bad habits removed" - I like the idea of quick turns and good glide, but DEFINITELY not for the money a new one costs if it will spank with any frequency - as some reviews suggest STILL happens.

3) The snivel School. I've grown so accustomed to instant openings that almost ALL of my canopy rides (remember, I like canopy rides) have been at LEAST 2500' verticals (except RW, I iniate deployment at 3 because I like flying). Am I likely going to want to open at tandem height for fear of a streamer?

I'm interested in personal opinions as I am from a small DZ that flies a lot of Sabres and Stilettos (and I've SEEN a lot of funky openings).

What's hiding out there that I've missed? ...Anybody?

Blue Skies

...the only 'Dave' on the DZ and as yet un-nicknamed

Life is very short and there's no time for fussing and fighting my friend (Lennon/McCartney)

[SkydiveMonkey 0]

Go to PISA.co.za and look at the Hornet.

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[PhreeZone 20]

First... whats your wingloading and exit weight? A 9 cell will help on the glide... but any downsize will change how fast a canopy spirals. I was getting headache causing spirals on my old Spectre 170 and its a 7 cell.

I can tell you from experience that a Sabre2 is not just a Stiletto with the bad things gone... Its a whole new class of canopy from PD thats made to bridge the gap between the Sabre and the Stiletto. Its not as fast as a Stiletto.. but its better on the openings. Think of the ideal PD progression as Sabre to Sabre2 to Stiletto (Or future replacement if ever). If you go with another canopy maker... they all have entry level canopies then mid then advanced.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[dterrick 0]

Blue Skies, and quick replies
Exit weight is 200-210 (we Canadians sometimes need to wear 'extra' clothes when jumping in not-July-or-August). So, a 170 class I'm looking at a max of 1.25:1. Right now, I'm loading the Raven at 0.93:1 - but since it has untold hundreds of jumps it really needs to be flogged (wind above about 10 mph is a 'no-flare' landing) and actually kind of likes X wind landings (when I dare).

My last jump I did a hop'n pop from 9k. It took 5 spirals to get from 8 to 7. Then I rotated and pulled out after LH spiral #8 because I was feeling a bit light headed . To accomplish this (toggles are impossible to hold at full brake after a 720) I had the riser with both hands ar the rapide and the opposing elbow locked around the opposite riser(s?) for support. This is quite a workout.

I recall the Sabre turning in very quickly, using chest level for a hard turn, and flaring nicely with a bit of a pop on flare. I also recall that this rig had standard leg straps (my racer has 2x wide pads) and that opening hurt my legs more than my back or neck. That's not a biggie, but when a snapper will get my back or neck... that's not cool

...Good point on the alt. manufacturers, the problem I have is that some say "old design, not comparable," ...etc - hence my question on Sabre 2's From what you say, a Sabre may not be that bad, at the right price...
I'd love to find a 'modern' design that could be a 500 jump'er rather than another canopy I'll tire of in 100 jumps.

The Hornet sounds interesting, we have a couple of Heatwaves (older) at DZ, I thought they were F 111 tho.

Life is very short and there's no time for fussing and fighting my friend (Lennon/McCartney)

[SkydiveMonkey 0]

Hornet is filly ZP, semi lip. Think Sabre II

____________________
Say no to subliminal messages

[wlie 0]

Quote

HELLLP! I'm falling at terminal and scared to pull cause it might hurt (again).

My Raven II (I know I know, what can I expect...all the Master Rigger mods have been made to soften the openings) now opens similar to a Sabre 210 that I used as a backup last skills camp.

Are you talking about hard openings? I've had that same fear with my Diablo opening hard on a few occasions. So I roll the tail tight and my neck doesn't hurt now.

My other ride is the relative wind.

[allrightscud 0]

I went from a fury to an Electra 170 PdeF. I had no problems at all. My exit weight is 190lbs. The canopy is a semi elliptical with zero p top skin and f111 bottom (its supposed to make it pack easier and smaller but I have my doubts).

As far as performance goes it turns a hell of a lot faster than the fury and losses a lot more in a turn than the fury did, bit if you want it to be slow and easy when turning it can be flown that way also. It has a great glide on flare and it opens on heading every time.

I love it. Its a lot better than the sabres I demoed. Although I never tried the sabre 2 as it wasn't out at that time. It was also cheaper and available straight a way. I'm not sure how available French gear is in the states or Canada, but I would seriously consider one. Great value for money.

S'later

Tom

Too much is never enough!

All right scud?

[PhreeZone 20]

Just a side note.. PdF will not sell gear in the states due to our lawsuit happy culture. (Among other reasons)

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[allrightscud 0]

Didn't know that. there you go. Does that mean that there would be a problem with me jumping PdeF gear if I came over?

S'later

Tom

Too much is never enough!

All right scud?

[PhreeZone 20]

No.. if you own it you can jump it here... or if you know some one in Europe that will ship you a canopy.. anyone can have a PdF canopy.

Accourding to the things I've read.. I'm not sure how much is true but here it is anyways... PdF is owned by a military supplier to the French. This company would have a lot of money for a lawsuit happy American to go after so they just choose to restrict sales. There are no dealers in the United States (Not sure about Canada) that can even get dealership. The only options to jump PdF in the United States is either buy new from over seas and import it, have a friend in Europe ship it to you "As a Gift" to avoid import fees, or buy used from someone that will ship it to you or live local. No dealer has one.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[allrightscud 0]

Thats okay, bit of a panic on. I was hopping to get over for some good weather jumping later in the year. The weather in The UK has been shit this year. Wouldn't like to get there and be grounded. That would be a bummer.

S'later

Tom

Too much is never enough!

All right scud?

[wlie 0]

So why do they advertise in America?

Ok. Answered my own question. "Because subscriptions can come from anywhere"

My other ride is the relative wind.

[weid14 0]

I went from a giant 7 cell OLD gutter gear canopy to a brand spankng new sabre (years ago -- rev. 1) the canopy was much better to fly thats for sure (new one), openings could be brisk though. I then went to a safire, crossfire and now velocity (with te odd Colbalt, monarch and stilletto thrown in there)(in the span of 1,000 jumps) the velocity opens nice, not to hard, but likes to hunt, the crossfire was sssslllooowwww, but mostly always on heading, and the safire good all around soft opening canopy. Don't worry, z-po is much better than regular ol' 0-3cfm fabric. a little longer opening sequence, but your neck and back will thank you. you can tell when a canopy is opening well and when there is an issue as you get more experience, that's another reason to wait a while before downsizing as things turn/spin and get out of control faster on a highly loaded canopy

[rendezvous 0]

HELLLP! I'm falling at terminal and scared to pull cause it might hurt (again)
____________________________________________________________

If you don't pull it's gonna hurt even more !

[cloud9 0]

Hi Dave
As already mentioned the Hornet would be a good choice. You can usually find them used for $600 or less. But not mentioned yet is the Triathlon, it comes in a 175 so a little better for your wing loading and jump numbers, it also has the South African ZP like the Hornet so its easier to pack. As you've already said the Sabre2 but its still quite expensive. But there are several others out there too. Like the Spectre, the Omni, the Safire now that there's a safire2 you might be able to find one of the originals fairly cheap. But as far as bang for your buck its just very hard to beat the Hornet, its a great canopy. I started with a Triathlon which I loved, but when I was ready to down size I couldn't find the deal I needed, so I went with a Hornet I was never sorry. I then went with the Heatwave for my elliptical experience and again I'm not sorry. I paid less then $600 for each of those canopies with less then 100 jumps on them. So look around, ask around and good luck in your search.

[fudd 0]

Just I packing tip, not an answer to any of your question.
Have you tried to put the end cells into the middle cell when propacking. This will make the opening soft. Ask an experinced packer or rigger to show you. Pull high the first time you try this. It may stream for a while.
I do this on my pd190 because there is a large hole cut in the slider. When not doing this I had some openings 2-3 seconds from pull to flying chute and that hurts a little bit . When packing like this it opens soft and smooth -fudd

There are only 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

[PhreeZone 20]

Fudd... thats HIGHLY not recommened to due as it can cause damage to the center cell of the canopy. In your case.. replace the slider and it will open better.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[fudd 0]

Thanks for the info, I had not heard that it could cause damage. I were recomended to do this from a packer to slow down openings. I'll take a close look at my centercell and see if there is any damage.
As for my current canopy, some damage isn't really a big issue for me. I'm not gonna jump it more than at most 30 jumps before I'll burn it. It's worn out so I can't sell it anyway. (unless I want to rip someone off). If I were to jump a lot more with it, I would have replaced the slider.
However, the techniq works really well, but it's not worth damaging a perfectly good canopy. Of course, if it can cause enough damage so I have to go for my reserve it's a whole new deal.
Do anyone else has any experience with this techniq

There are only 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

[Chief 0]

I have a Sabre II - 170 wing loaded at 1.3 and I love it. I don't really roll the nose to pack it. I give the noe one roll (light) and roll the tail about 6 - 7 times. Opens nice, soft, on heading. Snivel is about 500 ft and quite acceptable for me. Flies really nice also. Happy Trails. . . . Bill