Jimbo 0 #26 September 10, 2002 QuoteWhich is more than you have to do with a properly installed steel link. WHAT? How often do you inspect your steel links? Good luck... - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflyswc 0 #27 September 10, 2002 A guy at our dz had that happen under a crossfire 139 loaded at about 2:1 but his was almost straightened out the left front line group was hanging on by the threads on the rapide link and the nut was stuck in the riser . He diddn't even notice untill he landed and was gathering up his canopy and his line group was dangling!!! good thing he did a toggle turn onto final instead of his usual left front riser approach!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflyswc 0 #28 September 10, 2002 I don't know about loktite , that would make it a pain in the @$$ to get loose . you should keep an eye on your gear . If your setting your brakes , how much of an extra step is it to see if your links are loose? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #29 September 10, 2002 1) I use PRO LOK Removable Thread Lock. It isn't all that difficult to remove. I use Soft links on my personal equipment and use the lock tight stuff when I am rigging on other peoples gear. 2) Like several previous threads mentioned, people do not check their equipment (failed links, thinking you don't have to check Rapide links often, etc). 3) Soft links and Rapide links should have the same inspection interval. Every 30 days should suffice. Hook Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #30 September 11, 2002 Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- An inspection once per weekend and replacing when you reline the canopy should keep you safe. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Which is more than you have to do with a properly installed steel link. Which would explain why your link came loose. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #31 September 11, 2002 QuoteWhich would explain why your link came loose. Which also explains why thinking that soft links will last forever and need fewer inspections, is bad thinking. I may be an old fogey. But I'm an old fogey who's been jumping for 24 years without ever breaking any thing on my body, and who's seen a lot of gear changes come and go. Just because something is new, doesn't necessarily mean that it's better. :-) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #32 September 12, 2002 QuoteJust because something is new, doesn't necessarily mean that it's better. :-) And just because something is old doesn't mean it's better either. I don't think that anyone is under the impression that soft links will last forever, however they are proven to be stronger and more reliable (when properly installed) than the older Rapide links. To each his own I guess... - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #33 September 12, 2002 Quotesoft links... are proven to be stronger and more reliable (when properly installed) than the older Rapide links. I don't think that is proven at all. You might be able to pull test each to destruction and say soft links are stronger than steel links, but the proof is out in the field, in mass usage, over time. With dirt, wear, inattention and time, I think steel will hold up far better than soft links. I respect your opinion, but we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. :-) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #34 September 12, 2002 John, how long would you say it takes in time to prove the design? I know they have been in the field in massive use for 3 years now...Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #35 September 12, 2002 QuoteI think steel will hold up far better than soft links. Surprising you say that on the heels of experiencing a Rapide link failure yourself. I think, like most of the skydivers at the DZ you jump at, are resistent to change of any sort. You still jump a rip cord, correct? Has not the throw out pilot chute proven itself? In mass usage, over time? Soft links have the same inspection interval as Rapide links, are stronger, less bulky, allow the slider to be pulled down (if your into that), don't damage the slider groments which then wear on the lines, don't rust, don't require slider bumpers that wear out, don't come undone, if they do fail, it will most likely be on opening unlike a Rapide link, they are approved for reserve and tandem use, and they last at least as long as the line set itself. Hook Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #36 September 12, 2002 Let's pull some of the high points from Hook's post: Quotedon't come undone, if they do fail, it will most likely be on opening unlike a Rapide link, This is important. When a soft link fails you'll know immediately. I'd much rather be aware of a problem with my canopy at 3,000 than at 50 ft. Quotethey are approved for reserve and tandem use. This alone should be testament to the durability of the modern soft link. Just a few things to think about.... - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christoofar 0 #37 September 12, 2002 PD has information about the slink stress testing here. Others have also tested them and they perform well. I use them and I am perfectly comfortable with them. They'll last longer than my line set. My slider is easily adjustable after deployment and I don't have to worry about bumper damage. It's a big improvement. ____________________________________________________________ I'm RICK JAMES! Fo shizzle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #38 September 13, 2002 QuoteJohn, how long would you say it takes in time to prove the design? I know they have been in the field in massive use for 3 years now... I wouldn't call it "massive". The percentage of regular jumpers using soft links is still fairly small, compared to steel links, by my observation. And 3 years isn't really long enough for problems from chafing wear to start showing up. Give 'em 10 years, and I'll bet we'll start hearing about failures... After all, we're advised to change our canopy line sets every 600 jumps or so, because experience shows that is about when we start breaking lines due to wear. But some of us don't do it, and aren't that mindful of maintenance. Many jumpers let things go without the attention they deserve. When that happens with soft links, they'll start failing. (Going out on a limb with a prediction...) Steel is more resistant to human neglect than fabric. And human error is the most common cause of problems. Our equipment is usually more reliable than we are. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #39 September 13, 2002 QuoteSurprising you say that on the heels of experiencing a Rapide link failure yourself. Correction: it wasn't a link failure, it was my own inattention that failed to detect a loosening nut. That's a human error, not a link failure. I've made a few mistakes during my jumping career, and that was one of them. As I mentioned in my previous post, human error is our biggest problem - our gear is more reliable than we are. Therefore, the equipment that is most idiot-proof and holds up best against inattention, should be the most trouble-free. QuoteI think, like most of the skydivers at the DZ you jump at, are resistent to change of any sort. You still jump a rip cord, correct? Has not the throw out pilot chute proven itself? In mass usage, over time? I wouldn't characterize my fellow skydivers at my home DZ in that manor. I'm the old fogey. Woop! Woop! Woop! (Thread drift warning) I do still jump a ripcord. The throw-out pilot chute has proven itself, but it still has problems. The bridle can get wrapped around your arm, the handle can pull off, it can get buried in the pocket so you can't dig it out, it can slip out inadvertantly causing premature deployment, it can create horseshoe malfunctions with accidental pack openings, and so on. I've seen a lot of that kind of stuff. What are the problems with a rip-cord? An occasional pilot chute hesitation in my burble, easily cleared with a dip of the shoulder. Big deal. But when the throw-out pilot chute was first introduced, it was mounted on a belly band, and those started killing lots of people. It was a bad design, that didn't become apparent until out in mass field usage. As a rookie at the time (late 70's), I was aware of all the problems and fatalities due to twisted belly bands, and made the decision to stick with the tried and true rip cord. Then after a few years when the problem was eliminated by repositioning the pilot chute to the leg strap, I was so accustomed to the ripcord that there wasn't any point in changing when I bought new gear. And there still isn't. It works. That's why we use ripcords on our reserve chutes. It's simple and reliable. Some things that look good in the lab, sometimes don't work well in the field. That's why we have product recalls. We don't skydive in laboratory conditions; we're out there in the heat, dirt and moisture, and introducing neglect to the equation. I'm not telling anyone they shouldn't use soft links. I recognize the valid benefits you listed. I'm just urging caution and attention to inspection and maintenance, especially as the soft links age. :-) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #40 September 13, 2002 >The percentage of regular jumpers using soft links is still fairly small, compared to steel links, by my observation. I'd say over 50% of my DZ has them and they are standard on canopies from PA, PD is highly recommending them, and a lot of container makers are recommending them. I'd say thats more then just casual use. >What are the problems with a rip-cord? An occasional pilot chute hesitation in my burble, easily cleared with a dip of the shoulder. Big deal. Stuck Ripcord due to debris in the housing, damaged ripcord getting stuck on the loop, etc.. there are a lot of issues with a ripcord too...Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tlshealy 0 #41 September 13, 2002 Yes, ripcords are simple and reliable, but so are throwouts, the reason reserves have ripcords is because of the difficulty in have two throwouts on one rig and both working independently and not interfering with each other. I used to jump an intentional cutaway rig that had a ripcord for the main because the cutaway canopy had a throwout and if the main had a throw out, somehow the bridle would have to cross over or under the other canopy's risers. Blue ones Tad Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fasterfaller 0 #42 September 14, 2002 I have a set of slinks with over 500 jumps on them and there is no signs of wear . I will never go back to metal links again . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #43 September 14, 2002 Quotethe reason reserves have ripcords is because of the difficulty in have two throwouts on one rig and both working independently and not interfering with each other. Ever look at a Sigma? No ripcord. The deployment system used is actually really ingenius (once again, thanks Bill Booth). The drogue is the PC (obviously) and it is held in place by the closing loop that routes around a 4" metal disk that, which is attatched to the bridle of the drogue. when you pull one of the handles (golf balls, actually) on either side of the rig, it pulls a cord that pulls a straight closing pin (like on a pud) out of the closing loop that's routed around the metal disk, thus opening the container. The bridle on the drogue has a bent (90degress perpendicular to the curve, downward) closing pin that locks the straight pin, keeping it from releasing without the drogue deployed. This being another example of how new technology (or newer technology like a combination of Pud and throw out designs) can give us a better, more efficiant and safer mouse trap.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #44 September 14, 2002 QuoteAn occasional pilot chute hesitation in my burble, easily cleared with a dip of the shoulder. Big deal. Dipping a shoulder during deployment on my Stilletto will most likely cause a not so nice opening. Such as line twists or just plain getting SLAMMED. I'll keep my throw out...thanks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fasterfaller 0 #45 September 15, 2002 I agree with that statement Clay . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #46 September 15, 2002 Quote***Dipping a shoulder during deployment on my Stilletto will most likely cause a not so nice opening. Such as line twists or just plain getting SLAMMED. I'll keep my throw out...thanks. No one is saying you should get rid of your throw-out. The shoulder dip is needed for only about a half-second to get the pilot chute on its way, and then the shoulders are returned to level for deployment of lines and canopy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #47 September 15, 2002 QuoteI have a set of slinks with over 500 jumps on them and there is no signs of wear . I will never go back to metal links again . Couldn't the same thing be said of steel links? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fasterfaller 0 #48 September 15, 2002 I'm sure it could be said but slinks don't damage your slider grommets . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fasterfaller 0 #49 September 15, 2002 ***No thanks. I'll take stainless steel over fibers, for long-lasting durability and strength. You may solve one problem with the conversion, but you create a few others.Quote Slinks are much stronger than links . What other problems do they create ? If I would have had a link come apart like that on my velocity I more than likely would not be posting this . I think a lot of people will not use slinks because they are new and different than the same as it always was links of yesterday . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rcjump 0 #50 September 17, 2002 I have used both types of links i prefer soft links they help with slider damage and line wear at the point of connection to reduce the wear and less snap at line strech because the are snuger fit between line and riser and all tests showed riser failure before soft link failure at drop tests..... to reduce wear , and damage to all exposed parts thats not a hard choice to make ,,,my safty and the safty of all my fellow jumpers is my concern," isen't it yours!!!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 2 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
rcjump 0 #50 September 17, 2002 I have used both types of links i prefer soft links they help with slider damage and line wear at the point of connection to reduce the wear and less snap at line strech because the are snuger fit between line and riser and all tests showed riser failure before soft link failure at drop tests..... to reduce wear , and damage to all exposed parts thats not a hard choice to make ,,,my safty and the safty of all my fellow jumpers is my concern," isen't it yours!!!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
