Test Jump w/o Cypres?????

[Ducky 0]

I kow the whole Cypres debate has been beaten to death and that is not what this about. I FULLY believe in the value of a Cypres.

My question is about maybe just one jump without??

I am awaiting the arrival of a used rig I am trying to buy. MY rigger should receive it later in the week. It's a container, main and reserve, but NO cypres. It will be inspected and available for me to try on and possibly jump before the deal is final. Thank largely to advice harvested here
So what do you guys think about just that one test jump w/o a cypres.? Then locking it away out of reach until I can get the Cypres ordered and installed in a few weeks? I have my own own ideas/opinions obviously, but was just looking for feedback.

kwak

Sometimes your the bug, sometimes your the windshield. Sometimes your the hammer sometimes your the nail. Question is Hun, Do you wanna get hammered or do you wanna get nailed?????

[Jessica 0]

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So what do you guys think about just that one test jump w/o a cypres.?

Jump that biatch.

I, too, truly believe in the value of a Cypres, but when I took it out for its 4-year check and was too lazy/broke to send it in right away, I did 50 jumps without it, and it was cool. I think it gave me a better understanding of what I'm actually doing -- that is, flinging my soft little body out of a plane and dooming myself to a messy death unless I take some very specific action.

When you can, get the Cypres installed, but don't be skeered to jump without it.

That's my thought, anyway. And that said, I'm very happy to have my Cypres back in my rig.

Skydiving is for cool people only

[PhreeZone 20]

Why is a jump with a Cypres different then one without? I turn mine off before some jumps just since I know the likelyhood of needing it on a 13k clear and pull is so slight and a misfire could be really bad. Also on those 2500 foot jump runs its off. I've also forgot to turn it on some mornings and caught it on the second load.

You need to look at the Cypres Save page before you trust your life to a box of electronics and a battery. Only 3 or 4 in the last 12 years were really knocked out in freefall saves. The rest are loosing awareness or something else. Also look at the fatilities that still happened with a fully fuctional Cypres that never activated.

If you can't jump without a Cypres you are probally limiting the flying you can do since a wingsuit goes too slow to use a Cypres, CRW its best to turn it off, low jump run hop and pops could result in a double out on a 5 second delay, and the list goes on.

Take a HARD look at why you don't want to jump with out a Cypres.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[Ducky 0]

but don't be skeered to jump without it. ***


Umm yeah I suppose so. I have confidence in me and my abilities etc. Just that Cypres is there for the "unexpected". When you expect the unexpected won't happen then it probably is just about to

kwak

Sometimes your the bug, sometimes your the windshield. Sometimes your the hammer sometimes your the nail. Question is Hun, Do you wanna get hammered or do you wanna get nailed?????

[Jessica 0]

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When you expect the unexpected won't happen then it probably is just about to

Yep, and you could also have two canopies out or forget to turn your Cypres on and get knocked out or have a reserve fire into a ball-of-shit main or have a canopy collision or a freefall collision or get hit under canopy by a freefalling jumper or a reserve malfunction or turn low or hit a building or have an opening so hard it renders you infertile.

Shit happens in this sport, and the Cypres is not a magic bullet that's going to keep you safe no matter what.

The No. 1 reason I have one is to keep my pop happy.

Skydiving is for cool people only

[Ducky 0]

Interesting angle Phree. I guess it's just that I have tried to ease some reservations of loved ones by agreeing to buy and use a cypres.

I do NOT trust my life to a cypres at anytime when I jump. In the same respect that I don't trust the airbag in my truck to save me when I drive. I guess I just see it as an available safety measure and I feel the need to take all of those available for every jump. I would hate "just this once" to be famous last words of a lil known skydiver.

If it's not apparent I REALLY DO want to jump without it. I ma just trying my damndest to talk my self out of it.


kwak

Sometimes your the bug, sometimes your the windshield. Sometimes your the hammer sometimes your the nail. Question is Hun, Do you wanna get hammered or do you wanna get nailed?????

[Ducky 0]

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or have an opening so hard it renders you infertile

No worries there hun I think I am already infertile!!

kwak

Sometimes your the bug, sometimes your the windshield. Sometimes your the hammer sometimes your the nail. Question is Hun, Do you wanna get hammered or do you wanna get nailed?????

[lummy 4]

I've done the SAME thing. When I got my rig, it didn't have one, yet I jumped it. I'll have to say I was a bit paranoid and definitely more cautious on the jumps without. In hindsight, I think it was a good learning experience, because it broke my " always have a cypres" to back me up mentality, This was about when I had 50 jumps.
One of my cypri (yes, I had the 2nd installed when I went to Perris, and only because I was in unfamiliar territory) 4 year check last month. I didn't hesitate to jump without it at home. as far as I was concerned, I never had a cypres to begin with.

I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. eat sushi, get smoochieTTK#1

[dove 0]

Easy - are you comfortable jumping without it? If not - then wait. I have been unconscious in freefall. Don't wanna go there again - but if it happens, my cypres will be on. Would I ever make a jump or two without one? Sure - but I'll never own a rig without a cypres. And all that bunk about relying too heavily on your AAD is just that - bunk. I can't imagine ever thinking "Shit - I have a mal! I better do something quick - oh, nevermind.... I'll just wait for my cypres to fire."

Fall in dove.

[PhreeZone 20]

> I can't imagine ever thinking "Shit - I have a mal! I better do something quick - oh, nevermind.... I'll just wait for my cypres to fire."

Some highlights taken right from the Cypres save page:

May 1991: Ampfing, Germany - Student CYPRES: Student could not find ripcord, became confused and did nothing.

Jan. 1992:
Ahden, Germany - Student CYPRES: Student's main canopy streamered. Student did nothing about it.

Feb. 1992:
Davis, California - Student CYPRES: Student had a baglock malfunction and did nothing.

20. June 1995:
Zürich, Switzerland - Expert CYPRES: Following a 6-way, a skydiver with 1500 jumps and 14 years in the sport experienced a pilot chute in tow
upon attempting to deploy the main. While gearing up, the right leg strap had been twisted, causing a mis-route of the hand deploy bridle.
CYPRES activated his reserve, and he landed safely. Later, he said he didn't really know what to do next while the pilot chute was in tow.

August 1995:
Italy - Expert CYPRES: A skydiver exited at 3,800 m. When he prepared for opening, he became unstable keeping his hand deploy in his hand.
At 600 m he realized he was very low, and he decided to do nothing but let CYPRES open his reserve. CYPRES worked as expected, and the
jumper had an uneventful landing.
Lets skip a head a few years...

20.April 1999
Schaffen, Belgium: A skydiver with 180 jumps made practice pulls on his handdeploy to train on a new system. Nevertheless, at pulltime he isn't
able to pull. He stops doing anything and falls until the CYPRES activates the reserve.
16.July 1999
Moscow,Russia:
A skydiver with 182 jumps experienced a hard pull on her BOC handdeploy. She tried to solve this problem until the CYPRES fired. She had the
same problem already one year ago (May 98) when she had approx.80 jumps. As on the jump in 1998, she was now saved the second time by
the CYPRES.


Those are a few examples of how people just waited on the Cypres to save them instead of working on the problem themselves. Here is the scariest one I could find really quickly:

July 1994:
Dortmund, Germany - Expert CYPRES: A skydiver was unable to pull her hand deploy. At about 2000 ft. she made the decision to deploy the
reserve but in spite of using both hands was unable to do so. CYPRES worked as expected and activated her reserve. She later said she fully
trusted CYPRES and had waited "patiently" until the appropriate altitude was reached.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[kallend 2,027]

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>


Those are a few examples of how people just waited on the Cypres to save them instead of working on the problem themselves. Here is the scariest one I could find really quickly:

No - that's not what they said at all. There is no indication in many (most) of the cases you quote that the individual just waited for the CYPRES to fire or that their actions would have been any different had they not had a CYPRES (they'd just be dead instead of alive to tell the story).

[CanEHdian 0]

A couple of weeks ago, I witnessed this:

Experienced jumper cuts away @1,800 ft and then spends the next 1,000 feet fighting to get reserve handle out... visibly scrambling (yelling, cussing, etc...) - cypres saved him just when I thought I was about to see the worst...

Anyway, whatever the reasons, mistakes, nerves... call it how you like, judge it all you want... but buddy wouldn't be here had he not had the cypres.

We are human, we all make mistakes, we can't guarantee that we'll never make one. Buddy did NOT depend on this device to save him, he fought to the end.

I'm glad he had it, cause I'd have seen what I never want to see. (note to self, look away if ever there's a next time...)

My humble 2 cents.. that I usually keep to myself on such touchy topics which could turn bad... but just had to share from the experience I witnessed.

Cheers,
CanEHdian

Time's flying, and so am I...
(69-way, 108-way and 138/142-way Freefly World Records)

[PhillyKev 0]

Yeah..I can't imagine in those situations thinking that my AAD will save me so I'll just enjoy the ride. I think these people panicked and froze. They probably wouldn't have done anything differently even if AAD's didn't exist. Luckily they were saved, but if I ever froze and stopped trying to save my ass, I'd seriously consider quitting. One of the reasons I feel relatively safe in this sport is because I know I'm not the type to panic and resort to inaction, not because I have a Cypress. But if I'm proven wrong, I'll be glad it's there.

[KellyF 16]

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A couple of weeks ago, I witnessed this:

Experienced jumper cuts away @1,800 ft and then spends the next 1,000 feet fighting to get reserve handle out... visibly scrambling (yelling, cussing, etc...) - cypres saved him just when I thought I was about to see the worst...

Any indication as to what caused the hard (impossible?) pull?

VSE on Facebook

[nicknitro71 0]

Here we go gain! Chances are you will never need a Cypress in your skydiving career. If you do though chances are you will never know if you had one or not because you'll be dead. If you think 1000 bucks plus the hassles of batteries and the 4 year inspection are worth the slim chance of needing one then there is not argument at all. I jump one. When I demo or jump gears that don’t have one (and I do) I make just solos and pull a bit higher. We live once. If I ever need a Cypress most likely it will be THE BEST investment of my life; if not, I did not go broke because of $ 1000.

Memento Audere Semper

903

[agitator 0]

Yes, it does appear that Cypress saves.... idiots (except maybe for that Dortmund, Germany chick).
However, there have been a couple honest to goodness "knocked in the noggin and now I'm unconscious" saves, one of which happened to a good friend of mine on a 232 way attempt in Lake Wales FL a few years back [someone decided to dump a bit early and he ended up breaking his femur on my friend's head]. These never seem to make any list of Cypres saves I have ever seen, and I am always curious as to why.
To the main point, yeah, go ahead and jump that thing. Myself, knowing a guy who is alive because of one, and also knowing a guy who is dead because he didn't have one, I would not make a habit of it, but a few times using your discretion.... you should be OK.

[PhreeZone 20]

This one?

Dec. 1994:
Lake Wales, Florida - Expert CYPRES: On New Year's Eve a freefall collision between two skydivers occurred on a 230 way attempt
during break-off. One skydiver landed under his main with a broken leg. The other one tumbled unconsciously towards the earth when
CYPRES activated his reserve. He landed with serious injuries from the collision under his reserve, still being unconscious. Next day he
fortunately was recovering. - Will be jumping again in six weeks, doctor said.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[rgoper 0]

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My question is about maybe just one jump without??

this is a personal decision. i've heard 500 reasons why you shouldn't jump without one, but then i've heard 500 more reasons why you should jump with one. it all boils down to this: "what are YOU comfortable with?"

in the end, it's your tail on the line, no one elses. AAD's like RSL's are a matter of what you think you can/cannot live with, for some there is the "comfort" that these devices offer, as well as a cypress save while being unconcious (which, by the way is the ONLY reason i utilize one) would i jump without it? in a nanosecond, not a second thought, the same for an RSL. i will say this, if you won't jump without one, you shouldn't be jumping with one, they fail too, you should not, and cannot depend on this mechanical device to magically save your life. good luck, be safe and take care.

--Richard--
"We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist"

[PhillyKev 0]

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if you won't jump without one, you shouldn't be jumping with one

See, I still don't get this logic. That's like saying if you won't drive without a seat belt, you shouldn't drive at all, because you can still die wearing your seat belt. I don't think people drive any more or less recklessly because they have a seat belt on, and I also don't think they're more or less reckless skydiving because of the presence of an AAD, or lack thereof.

[rgoper 0]

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See, I still don't get this logic.

this logic is no rocket science, only common sense. do you agree that a cypress can/and/will fail? if the answer is yes, and you wouldn't jump without a cypress, now do you get it?

--Richard--
"We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist"

[PhillyKev 0]

obviously it's not common sense, because I still don't get it.

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do you agree that a cypress can/and/will fail?

Yes

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if the answer is yes, and you wouldn't jump without a cypress, now do you get it?

Nope, still don't get it. It's all about mitigating risk. Are your overall odds of surviving a jump increased by using a Cypress? Yes, otherwise why use them at all. I choose to make sure those odds are always as much in my favor as possible.

Do you agree that a reserve parachute can and will fail? If the answer is yes, would you jump without one?

[riggerrob 643]

If you plan on jumping without a Cypres, then keep your dives simple. i.e. hop-and-pops. Plan the dive so there will be no-one else near you and warn the pilot that you plan to open high.
To improve your odds of performing correctly, review reserve procedures before boarding the airplane.

P.S. I did more than one thousand jumps before Cypri were invented.

[wmw999 2,447]

[font "Verdana,Arial,Helvetica"][size 2]

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if you won't jump without one, you shouldn't be jumping with one

See, I still don't get this logic. [/size][/font]
My brother used to say that anyone who didn't wear a helmet on a motorcycle shouldn't be allowed to wear one. The idea being that natural selection would more likely to take care of cleaning the gene pool if they were both silly enough not to wear a helmet, and unlucky/unskilled enough to get in an accident.
That's how I read it...

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[rgoper 0]

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Do you agree that a reserve parachute can and will fail? If the answer is yes, would you jump without one?

yes, i agree that they can, have, and will fail. will i jump without one? i hope to in the very near future, i'm planning on obtaining a B.A.S.E. rig, and it won't have a reserve. so the answer is yes, i would jump without one.

--Richard--
"We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist"

[ECVZZ 0]

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an opening so hard it renders you infertile.

LMFAO!!

G. Jones

"I've never been quarantined. But the more I look around, the more I think it might not be a bad idea."