TALONSKY 0 #1 October 14, 2002 I know that there has been several posts that went into the fact that the original Safire's and Omega's are measure differently than PD. I e-mailed Icarus and explained that this had been talked about here and if they could give me a reply that I could post so here is Icarus's reply The Safire-1 and the Omega are measured differently to PD canopies. As a rough guide a Safire-1 or Omega is about the same size as the next size down - eg A Safire 149 is about a 135. A Safire 119 is about a 109. Use an equation of 8%. The Safire-2 and Omni (Omni supercedes Omega) are measured the same as PD. All other Icarus Canopies are measured the same as PD. The reason for the difference is due to Precision measuring their canopies differently. Icarus have always measured the same as PD however when we originally commenced in the USA, Precision were building parachutes for us under license and were doing it using their size equations and not Icarus/PD's. We have therefore had to wait to supercede these models to change the size equation. Only the Safire and Omega were affected. Blue skies Simon Icarus Canopies USA: 1S671 Bender Lane, West Chicago, IL 60185, USA Ph. (630) 562-2735, Fax (630) 231-4430 Europe: P.I. El Ramassar, c/ Vallés, s/n O8520, Les Franqueses, Barcelona, SPAIN. Ph. (34) 938 496 432, Fax (34) 938 497 971 www.icaruscanopies.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #2 October 14, 2002 Precision built the Crossfire too, why wasn't that measured differently? - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lummy 4 #3 October 14, 2002 Could you tell me if I'm correct. I have a custom sized Omega 180 built in 97. So in effect, I am jumping a 164?I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. eat sushi, get smoochieTTK#1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TALONSKY 0 #4 October 14, 2002 That would be correct. Your 180 is about a 164. I have a Safire 169 and taking a tape measure to it and comparing it to a PD Sabre 150, I found mine to be about the same size. Ding the same thing to a Hornet 170, I came up that mine was about 16 sq feet smaller. As to why just the Safire and the Omega are the only canopies effected I do not know Kirk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lummy 4 #5 October 14, 2002 well, that'd explain why it always seemed zippier than the rentals :) On the plus side, downsizing won't be an issue for awhile. Seems I just didI promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. eat sushi, get smoochieTTK#1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Swanee 0 #6 October 15, 2002 I have a Safire 1 169 and last weekend I compared actual size to a friend's Safire 2 149. The 169 had about a foot more span. Not a huge difference! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #7 October 15, 2002 You're missing the whole the picture, multiply the span difference by the chord difference and you'll have a few more square feet. You can't accurately compare two canopies based on only one dimension, think what would happen if you tried to compare a Spectre 170 and a Sabre 2 170 based only on the difference in span length. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Swanee 0 #8 October 15, 2002 I should have mentioned The chord seemed virtually the same between the 149 and the 169 Swanee Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #9 October 15, 2002 These are the measurements of the PD Sabre 170 and Sabre 150. Do you think you'd notice the difference? Sabre-170 Span: 20.45 Chord: 8.18 Aspect Ratio: 2.5:1 Sabre-150 Span: 19.21 Chord: 7.68 Aspect Ratio: 2.5:1 That's 20 square feet with a difference of 15 inches on the span and 6 inches on the chord. I think it would be very easy to miss the 6 inches on the chord without a measuring tape, there's just too much 'play' if you're simply laying the canopies on top of, or next to each other. These are PD's measurements for a 'square' canopy, things get even more difficult when measuring elliptical canopies. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Plummet 0 #10 October 16, 2002 Would this also apply to an Omega 185, mfg. 5/99 in New Zealand ?-Jeff. http://www.iplummet.com Common sense and common courtesy are NOT common. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johnny1488 1 #11 October 16, 2002 Im pretty sure it affects all omegas and first generation safires. I could be wrong about omegas made after the introduction of the new line but a 99 is in that range im sure. Although the new zealand part just got me thinking. Call simon if you want to know for sure. You should be able to tell. I have a safire 209 and i know it flies much more like a 190 than a 210 but then I knew that when I bought it. johnny Johnny --"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!" Mike Rome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TALONSKY 0 #12 October 16, 2002 I believe that this sizing issue affects all Safire's and Omega's not just ones made in the USA. Mine was made in Spain on July 2000 and has the sizing issue. Blue Skies Kirk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DiverRI 0 #13 October 28, 2002 my safire was made in march 2002, would this be Safire 2 ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #14 October 28, 2002 Icarus did'nt make the press anouncement about the Safire2 being made until April so I'd say its iffy that its a Safire2. Call to make sure.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TALONSKY 0 #15 October 28, 2002 Look on the warning lable that is were it will state the size and if it is a Safire 2 it will state that to. I know that my Crossfire2 only states Crossfire2 on the warning label(the large lable on the side still says Crossfire). As Simon stated in the e-mail anything that is an Omega or Safire(not the Omni or Safire 2) will be 8% smaller than stated. I do have to say that Icarus has been aware of this for a long time and if you have ever talked to them, they will always let you know about it. When I was looking at one as my second main I called them and that was the first thing they let me know. Kirk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
narcimund 0 #16 November 2, 2002 The early Safire2s warning labels were identical to the ones on the Safire(1). I got one of the very first Safire2s and was disappointed to see the old logo on the label. Be sure to read the handwritten Model Type on the label. That will specify which one you have. First Class Citizen Twice Over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Staso 0 #17 November 4, 2002 Quote The early Safire2s warning labels were identical to the ones on the Safire(1). I got one of the very first Safire2s and was disappointed to see the old logo on the label. yeap, i got the same. mine was manufactured in may 02. i jsut put "2" next to "safire" on the warning label. it's probably illegal thing to do stan. -- it's not about defying gravity; it's how hard you can abuse it. speed skydiving it is ... Speed Skydiving Forum Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
