numskull99 0 #1 October 17, 2002 Does anyone know anything about Viper main canopy? Is it elliptical? Thanx, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Jimbo 0 #2 October 17, 2002 The Viper is a fully elliptical canopy and I believe one of the earlier Atair designs that eventually became the Cobalt. I believe the progression was Viper, Alpha, and finally the Cobalt. I could be wrong about the progression, I'm sure CobaltDan can provide a bit more information. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wlie 0 #3 October 17, 2002 The only Viper I know is made in the UK. It's supposedly a Stilletto knock-off. Much less expensive than a Stilletto, but performs just as well. A friend of mine jumps one, and he does video. Speaking of which, the end cells of his Viper inflate pretty slowly in every one of his videos. One might think they've got end cell closures. Seems to fly great, opens nice and soft. Hope that helps.My other ride is the relative wind. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhreeZone 20 #4 October 17, 2002 The Alpha was also known as the Space.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ernokaikkonen 0 #5 October 17, 2002 >The Alpha was also known as the Space. And the 'Impulse', I think. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cobaltdan 0 #6 October 17, 2002 viper>alpha/space/impulse>cobalt the viper was a predecessor to the cobalt, manufactured by: atair aerodynamics www.extremefly.com not as fully refined as the cobalt, but definately a step up from a stilletto and a very sweet canopy. sincerely, dan<><>Daniel Preston <><> atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nicknitro71 0 #7 October 17, 2002 I have a Viper 135. Although I have not jumped yet due to bad weather! Damn! Anyhow, the label says Winchester Technology UK but it was made by Atair and distributed in the US by skydepot, no longer in business. It is fully elliptical and apperently it has all the stiletto good features but it opens more softly and has more flare. A guy at my DZ flies a 120 and he really likes it. Another one had a 150 some years back and he still regrets he sold it. According to him the buttom-end flare was outstanding. This guy now jumps a Velocity 103 loaded 2.0 and he still swears about the Viper 150! Go figure! Atair then improved the design and made the Alpha, then, as we all know, the Cobalt. As soon as I jump it I'll tell you more about it. If you find one with low jumps and a good price get it!Memento Audere Semper 903 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites roq 0 #8 October 17, 2002 I have two Vipers last model of Winchester Tec (skydepot) One 105 and other 94 (named super viper because the trim is equal to Alpha) The canopys is like the Alpha, and have opennings, flare and landings better than stilleto The Viper glide ratio is a bit more steep to stilleto. My Vipers is for sale. If have anybody interested e-mail me. Roq Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites psw097 0 #9 October 17, 2002 I have a Viper 105. It has been an excellent canopy, especially at the very low price you could get one for. It's like a Stiletto but more like a Cobalt, exactly, IMO. I've jumped Cobalts the same size, also larger and smaller, and the Viper flies/lands the same. I think the Viper opens better (slower), but I pack my own. A Cobalt is just a lot more expensive. Paul Webster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cobaltdan 0 #10 October 17, 2002 note vipers were less expensive because: skydepot/winchester purchased them from us in bulk of about 150 at time, there were no custom colors. and we had no demo program, advertising or related overhead to cover. sincerely, dan<><>Daniel Preston <><> atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nicknitro71 0 #11 October 17, 2002 Hey Dan, Can you guys price a Cobalt like they do with some premium unlabeled cigars? You get the same canopy, different name, no marketing, no custom color, no fancy packeging but the same great flavour! By the way, do you know what the price of a new Viper was back in those days? Memento Audere Semper 903 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites psw097 0 #12 October 17, 2002 $700 or $800 I think, I paid $500 for mine w/2 jumps on it - one of the last from Skydepot and ugly as crap colors. For $500 I'd buy another new, butt ugly Viper tomorrow, a 95 this time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cobaltdan 0 #13 October 17, 2002 new vipers way back when were in the $1200-1300 price range. when we ceased doing business with skydepot, gunther liquidated his remaining stock at prices around $800 which is below cost.... most of his remaining stock had hideous color schemes (his pick of colors not ours)... stuff like frog green with orance stripes, pinks and the like....yuck... off to west virginia for a 4 second freefall sincerely, dan Daniel Preston atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites numskull99 0 #14 October 17, 2002 About how many jumps would it take on a viper to start wearing down the ZP fabric? In other words how many jumps till it will start loosing its performance? Thanx, Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhreeZone 20 #15 October 17, 2002 That type of ZP's been reported to have over 3000 jumps and still passing porestiy tests. I think you'll get tired of the colors before most ZP wears out any more.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nicknitro71 0 #16 October 21, 2002 I finally jumped my Viper 135 loaded 1.3 and it's a great canopy. The openings are very soft although sensitive to body position. The riser pressure is fairly low and the toggles are really soft. It has some oversteer but at my wingloading nothing major. Lots of flare for landing.Memento Audere Semper 903 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites luis 0 #17 October 22, 2002 Isn't it still sold as "Contrail" by Performance Variable in Europe? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites vesatoro 0 #18 October 24, 2002 Yes, I think Contrail is the very same canopy. I used to jump a Contrail 105 with 1.5 wingload, and liked the canopy a lot (800 jumps). I think it opens more nicely than Stiletto (slower and more on heading) and also has more lift in the end of the flare. Also the fabric is much easier to pack than the one PD uses. I chanced to FX79 as it suits better to wingsuit flying with bit snappier and on heading openings. But after all Contrail/Viper is a very good canopy for it's cost. Vesa "Fear is the path to the Dark side" (Master Yoda) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites luis 0 #19 October 24, 2002 Quote Yes, I think Contrail is the very same canopy. I am jumping a Contrail 150 (loaded at 1.2) too. Must agree with everything you said about it. Sweeeeeet and soft openings, in fact I even had to adjust packing style to make open a bit faster. Massive flare and soft toggles. Some oversteer, but I got used to it now. On the other hand I made a transition to it way too early, - had a few jumps on Spectre150 and Hornet150 and didn't expect Contrail to be THAT different...but the first landing scared the crap out of me - after all it is eliptical and was quite fast for my experience. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
Jimbo 0 #2 October 17, 2002 The Viper is a fully elliptical canopy and I believe one of the earlier Atair designs that eventually became the Cobalt. I believe the progression was Viper, Alpha, and finally the Cobalt. I could be wrong about the progression, I'm sure CobaltDan can provide a bit more information. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wlie 0 #3 October 17, 2002 The only Viper I know is made in the UK. It's supposedly a Stilletto knock-off. Much less expensive than a Stilletto, but performs just as well. A friend of mine jumps one, and he does video. Speaking of which, the end cells of his Viper inflate pretty slowly in every one of his videos. One might think they've got end cell closures. Seems to fly great, opens nice and soft. Hope that helps.My other ride is the relative wind. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #4 October 17, 2002 The Alpha was also known as the Space.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ernokaikkonen 0 #5 October 17, 2002 >The Alpha was also known as the Space. And the 'Impulse', I think. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cobaltdan 0 #6 October 17, 2002 viper>alpha/space/impulse>cobalt the viper was a predecessor to the cobalt, manufactured by: atair aerodynamics www.extremefly.com not as fully refined as the cobalt, but definately a step up from a stilletto and a very sweet canopy. sincerely, dan<><>Daniel Preston <><> atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nicknitro71 0 #7 October 17, 2002 I have a Viper 135. Although I have not jumped yet due to bad weather! Damn! Anyhow, the label says Winchester Technology UK but it was made by Atair and distributed in the US by skydepot, no longer in business. It is fully elliptical and apperently it has all the stiletto good features but it opens more softly and has more flare. A guy at my DZ flies a 120 and he really likes it. Another one had a 150 some years back and he still regrets he sold it. According to him the buttom-end flare was outstanding. This guy now jumps a Velocity 103 loaded 2.0 and he still swears about the Viper 150! Go figure! Atair then improved the design and made the Alpha, then, as we all know, the Cobalt. As soon as I jump it I'll tell you more about it. If you find one with low jumps and a good price get it!Memento Audere Semper 903 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
roq 0 #8 October 17, 2002 I have two Vipers last model of Winchester Tec (skydepot) One 105 and other 94 (named super viper because the trim is equal to Alpha) The canopys is like the Alpha, and have opennings, flare and landings better than stilleto The Viper glide ratio is a bit more steep to stilleto. My Vipers is for sale. If have anybody interested e-mail me. Roq Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
psw097 0 #9 October 17, 2002 I have a Viper 105. It has been an excellent canopy, especially at the very low price you could get one for. It's like a Stiletto but more like a Cobalt, exactly, IMO. I've jumped Cobalts the same size, also larger and smaller, and the Viper flies/lands the same. I think the Viper opens better (slower), but I pack my own. A Cobalt is just a lot more expensive. Paul Webster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cobaltdan 0 #10 October 17, 2002 note vipers were less expensive because: skydepot/winchester purchased them from us in bulk of about 150 at time, there were no custom colors. and we had no demo program, advertising or related overhead to cover. sincerely, dan<><>Daniel Preston <><> atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nicknitro71 0 #11 October 17, 2002 Hey Dan, Can you guys price a Cobalt like they do with some premium unlabeled cigars? You get the same canopy, different name, no marketing, no custom color, no fancy packeging but the same great flavour! By the way, do you know what the price of a new Viper was back in those days? Memento Audere Semper 903 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
psw097 0 #12 October 17, 2002 $700 or $800 I think, I paid $500 for mine w/2 jumps on it - one of the last from Skydepot and ugly as crap colors. For $500 I'd buy another new, butt ugly Viper tomorrow, a 95 this time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cobaltdan 0 #13 October 17, 2002 new vipers way back when were in the $1200-1300 price range. when we ceased doing business with skydepot, gunther liquidated his remaining stock at prices around $800 which is below cost.... most of his remaining stock had hideous color schemes (his pick of colors not ours)... stuff like frog green with orance stripes, pinks and the like....yuck... off to west virginia for a 4 second freefall sincerely, dan Daniel Preston atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
numskull99 0 #14 October 17, 2002 About how many jumps would it take on a viper to start wearing down the ZP fabric? In other words how many jumps till it will start loosing its performance? Thanx, Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #15 October 17, 2002 That type of ZP's been reported to have over 3000 jumps and still passing porestiy tests. I think you'll get tired of the colors before most ZP wears out any more.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nicknitro71 0 #16 October 21, 2002 I finally jumped my Viper 135 loaded 1.3 and it's a great canopy. The openings are very soft although sensitive to body position. The riser pressure is fairly low and the toggles are really soft. It has some oversteer but at my wingloading nothing major. Lots of flare for landing.Memento Audere Semper 903 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
luis 0 #17 October 22, 2002 Isn't it still sold as "Contrail" by Performance Variable in Europe? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vesatoro 0 #18 October 24, 2002 Yes, I think Contrail is the very same canopy. I used to jump a Contrail 105 with 1.5 wingload, and liked the canopy a lot (800 jumps). I think it opens more nicely than Stiletto (slower and more on heading) and also has more lift in the end of the flare. Also the fabric is much easier to pack than the one PD uses. I chanced to FX79 as it suits better to wingsuit flying with bit snappier and on heading openings. But after all Contrail/Viper is a very good canopy for it's cost. Vesa "Fear is the path to the Dark side" (Master Yoda) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
luis 0 #19 October 24, 2002 Quote Yes, I think Contrail is the very same canopy. I am jumping a Contrail 150 (loaded at 1.2) too. Must agree with everything you said about it. Sweeeeeet and soft openings, in fact I even had to adjust packing style to make open a bit faster. Massive flare and soft toggles. Some oversteer, but I got used to it now. On the other hand I made a transition to it way too early, - had a few jumps on Spectre150 and Hornet150 and didn't expect Contrail to be THAT different...but the first landing scared the crap out of me - after all it is eliptical and was quite fast for my experience. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
