Front Riser Releasing

[PhreeZone 20]

I'm looking to improve the constant 35-50 feet surfs that I'm getting now on my Cobalt 150 loaded at 1.25:1 before I take the 135 demo out.
I'm currently doing either a 90 or 180 front riser turn to final and I'm coming out of the turn at about 50-75 feet still. While I'm in the turn I grab the other front riser to maintain the speed that is built up. I'm currently releasting the front risers real quickly at about 15-20 feet, the canopy swings me most the way under it again and the I take the toggles to the sweet spot on the canopy. In between the release of the front risers and the toggle movement there is only about 1.5 seconds max. In order to get an improved surf should I slowly let the front risers up, then hit the toggles? Or should let go of the risers a bit sooner like at 25 feet real quickly, wait for the canopy to swing me out, then hit the sweet spot? Or should I slowly lower the altitude that I come out of the turn so its at like 20 feet then take the toggles to the sweet spot when I'm swung out from the canopy?
I want to touch the sky, I want to fly so high ~ Sonique

[freeflir29 0]

OK...no one else answered so here's my opinion. Obviously the longest swoop will come from the most speed. You have the highest amount of speed just as you "come out of the corner" If you come out of the corner at swooping height that's the most efficient but also the most dangerous. Using the front risers for a few seconds is a damn good idea IMHO unless you are over water and can afford to be "off" a little.
As far as when to release. We don't fly the same kind of canopy but I don't think yours is much differen't in this part of the flight. If I let up on the front risers too high my parachute will go into it's natural recovery arc and I will be stranded 20 ft up with no airspeed when it gets to the end of the arc. You want to find the release point where your parachute follows it's natural arc to match your swoop. Let up too soon and your too high. Too late and you have to dig out with toggles or risers. You shouldn't have to do much in the way of control input other than slowly move the toggles to the sweet spot to maximize the glide. The parachute should almost enter the swoop without any input what so ever as part of the natural arc. Be careful! I don't know shit but I have a couple nice swoops to my name......."and I'm not easily impressed...Ooohh look...a blue car!" -Homer Simpson

[Geoff 0]

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The parachute should almost enter the swoop without any input

This does depend on the canopy. At one extreme, I heard of people who could flare and land a Sabre by releasing the front risers correctly, but using no toggle at all. (Can anyone confirm this?)
By contrast, some canopies such as high-performance cross-braces will not plane out just by releasing the front risers. They need some toggle (or rear riser) to pull them out of the dive.
Just my 2 pennies.
Geoff

[freeflir29 0]

"They need some toggle (or rear riser) to pull them out of the dive."
I believe that to be true but being that I fly a PD 190 I couldn't speak with any expertise on this subject. Where's Chuck????
"and I'm not easily impressed...Ooohh look...a blue car!" -Homer Simpson

[cobaltdan 0]

i think chucky is awol in key west ....?
-dan

[freeflyguy 0]

I'm reluctant to give specific advice to a specific person, because it is hard to say, without seeing them fly. But generally.
I think it was the Icarus website, talkin about the vx, the guy was saying that a lighter loaded canopy or one that doesn't dive as much, will have to be (gulp) hooked lower, because the recovery arc is so quick.
It sounds like you may be coming out of your turn a bit soon. If you are going to double front risers. That is a safe way to go. I have never jumped a cobalt, but was under the impression they dive pretty well. At your wing loading, I wouldn't expect it too though. I don't much care for a quick release of a riser. I like slow carves, and slow transitions.
What you might try, ONLY if you are as consistant coming out of the corner at the height you say is. Set up a bit lower, but instead of having to go to both fronts, do your turn with the one riser(90 only, for now). As you come around let it up about half way or so. Keep letting it up slowly until you are ready to go to the toggles. The idea is to carry the speed from the one riser, until you need to flair. As you come onto heading, finishing the 90, you will have almost none, or no front riser pulled down and the canopy will be starting to plane on it's own. If it isn't, then this is bad advice. Please constantly access whatever you are doing, and if you need to change, do it quick.
Again, this is something to access for your situation, and your wing loading. If it where much higher wing loading, it would start to carry the dive more. Also, if you are not consistant in the height you come out, the amount of turn you do, and Where you stop. You should work on those first.
It is no accident that Andy Ferrington, and his sister Kerri where world champions on accuracy canopies, long before they got good at swooping. Swooping is so much about accuracy. Learn that first, and build on it.
j

[PhreeZone 20]

Thats exactly what type of advice I was looking for..... Thanks!
I want to touch the sky, I want to fly so high ~ Sonique

[freeflyguy 0]

Quote

...advice...

Hah. Thanks. But just so you know who you are getting your advice from, I attached a picture, of one of my less successful swoops last spring.
Barry is in the foreground, demonstrating the versitility of a samuarai as a floatation device. That is me in the back. I was so proud of myself for making it through the flags, I kind of forgot about the rest of the landing. oops. "Pull your strings"
"Fun is when stupid goes good, Tragedy is when stupid goes bad."
james
here it is

[freeflyguy 0]

sheesh. here it is, I think

[freeflir29 0]

Pretty good "displacement" you have going on there...."and I'm not easily impressed...Ooohh look...a blue car!" -Homer Simpson

[freeflyguy 0]

Ya, nice Displacement. Once through the risers. You can see my legs extended behind. I stopped just before the shore, then walked up. Nothing hurt.
That is nice reminder that a 1.5 wingloading can kill or maim. So don't let anybody try to convince you that you can't have fun on a lighter wing load. I started going to the pond on my Sabre at 1.2 with less than a hundred jumps, and got some nice swoops, as well as learned a lot.
Here is a pic of a more succesful swoop.
j

[freeflir29 0]

That one looks much better! With a little toe drag even! "and I'm not easily impressed...Ooohh look...a blue car!" -Homer Simpson

[SkymonkeyONE 4]

Quote

I heard of people who could flare and land a Sabre by releasing the front risers correctly, but using no toggle at all. (Can anyone confirm this?)

I can definitely confirm this. One of the "tricks" most members of the Golden Knights 8-way team did all the time when they were jumping Sabres was exactly that. They would come around the corner, then just let go of the toggles and slide out the landing on their soles. Of course back then they also flipped upside down on top of the slider like a spider and would sometimes not flip out until just before they touched down. Saw Darren Schuster get one of his feet caught in the risers, then spiral into the water beside the runway at Raeford; NICE!
On a different note, some people keep their brakes VERY tight on their mains; it's just their preference. Anyway, by having them like that you can rest assured that your canopy will buck when making your riser turns. Another 1990ish GK 8-way story: J.C. Coffman would make his riser turn WITHOUT his toggles in his hands (because it bucked), then reach back for his toggles and flare. This, while very unsafe and not very efficient in my mind, worked for him 99.999% of the time. Well, one time old J.C. was swooping the pine trees and going for the then-stylish "pine comb kick". Anyway, he did his turn too low, frantically reached for his toggles, but only managed to fly right into the tree at a height of about 20 feet. Rixter Neely, my vidiot, climbed up that damn tree like a squirrel before J.C. came too. It was a hoot! Moral of the story: keep you damn toggles in your hand!
My webpage HERE

[freeflir29 0]

": keep you damn toggles in your hand!"
No shit.......Raeford...Summer 2000. Jump number 19. Pulled on front riser to stay away from the trees (Dragon pullin on the canopy) Had all my fingers in the dive loops. Removed my hand to get ready for the flare and lost the right toggle. Reached once....reached twice....mental low alti warning went off. Turned around to see the ground coming up very fast. No flare landing. I think I broke my tail bone but I never went to the doc to get it checked. It hurt for 3-4 months afterward. This was on an Aeroglide 220. It was 1:1 ish and I hit hard and slid at least 30 feet. People said I bounced about 3 ft off the ground. Right in front of the "Skygod" packing pavillion at that...LOL If I had been loaded any higher I would not have limped away..."and I'm not easily impressed...Ooohh look...a blue car!" -Homer Simpson

[rhino 0]

Smoothness.. Don't just let go of the front risers, let them up smoothly...
Blue Skies and Smooth Rides!!

[mikefarmer 0]

My $.02: Smooth, slow riser release will retain the most speed. A quick "let go" from a riser dive will cause rapid speed loss, and rapid decrease in altitude loss. Watch crew rotations sometime. When the guy at the top dives to the botom, if he dives right to his slot, he will release the front risers right from the dive, and his dive and forward speed just stop relative to the formation. Hence, for the longest, smoothest swoop, release slowly and smoothly, and plane out slowly. If you get too low, the snap release is a good way to "abort" and slow down quickly.
Mike
Sky World