Landing hard and I need help.

[NicoNYC 0]

I have about 32 jumps. 10 S/L jumps and 22 FF jumps. I need some serious tips about landing downwind. I know that I shouldn't be landing downwind but sometimes it just happens to the best of us.
Well, last July I landed downwind and ended up fracturing my ankle and tearing up my ligaments. Just last Thursday, I landed downwind again. This time I only broke my hand and sprained my knee and the same ankle that I fractured the year before.
The problem was that I realized that I was heading downwind at approximately 200 to 250 feet AG. I heard way too many horror stories about people turning back into the wind and either severely hurting themselves or even dying from it. Therefore, the last thing that I wanted to do was to make any hazardous adjustments to my flight plan. I flared at about 15 feet but I still nailed the ground pretty hard. I tried to PLF but my feet hit the runway like a spike first, then I did two unintentional forward rolls on my head to my feet.
I need some serious flying tips about how low can I apply a 180 degree turn incase I need to turn back into the wind? Also, does anyone know any DZs that offer canopy flying as a discipline? Please help. If I have another accident it may be a sign that I'm just not worthy of this sport or it may even be fatal.

[SkydiveMonkey 0]

I think some good canopy control lessons are in order from your instructors. On a student kit, turning 180 degrees in 250 feet should not be a problem. Have you heard of a flat turn? This is where you turn, but in brakes (ie. both toggles are down, but one further down than the other in order to turn).
When you participate in sporting events, its not whether you win or you're loose, its how drunk you get.

[Jimbo 0]

Can you ask your instructors to put you back on radio for a few jumps? This might help. If you can ask them to put you on radio, you can probably ask them for canopy coaching too. If you don't feel comfortable asking them for canopy coaching then you might consider a trip out to Elsinore or Deland. Both of these schools have canopy control programs.
Good luck.
-
Jim

[NicoNYC 0]

Thanks for the tip. I'm pretty much sticking to a 240 or 220 main. Question regarding the flat turn, when I'm making that correction above 250 ft. and turning back into the wind, do I release both toggles back up and just keep my feet and knees together or do I keep the toggles in half brakes so the canopy doesn't do a dive on me?

[polarbear 1]

Its good you recognize your problems...while repeated mistakes are an indication of something wrong, the fact that you recognize them (and the potential seriousness of them) and want to fix them is a good mentality. You should know that in the instances you landed downwind, if you had whipped a toggle turn to try and get back around, you would have done far worse. Your decision to land downwind was probably a good one. If you are really worried about getting hurt, it could be prudent to stop jumping...but we all don't want to see you do that Your instructors should be able to help. If they can't you might seriously think about getting some instruction elsewhere.

[SkydiveMonkey 0]

If you've still got height, SLOWLY let up the toggles, if not, flare with what's left and be prepared to do a PLF.
When you participate in sporting events, its not whether you win or you're loose, its how drunk you get.

[SkyMissy 0]

I am not being a smart ass here, but it may sound like it. Sorry in advance..Like has been said before, get some serious canopy coaching w/radio & video, possibly at another DZ. ALSO, Get a mattress and work on PLF's off the bed or sofa while you watch TV. Sounds like that has been the real cause of your injuries, other than needing some canopy training. Good luck, I'm sure you'll get it down!!
13,500' to the ground. We're dressed like clowns. The door's open. Hit it!

[Kelly 0]

nico.. is that you? its kelly. the EMT from Xkeys.. why dont you come back out to xkeys (During the week) and do some canopy control work? call up the dz.. ask for Heath or Krusey.. they are both awesome canopy pilots..
http://kel197.tripod.com/skydivefriendsTRIPOD/

[freefalle 0]

I have to agree with the majority. Get some canopy control coaching. Deland has an excellent program. for 25.00 a jump you get coaching and a video of your landings. Ive had a couple of downwind landings, they suck. I lifted my legs at the waist and just kinda slid it in. was pretty but I walked away. Good luck.

[drenaline 0]

The only thing I can say is that you need some coaching, get a instructor and ask him for help and like SkyMissy said practice your PLF if you make a good PLF you wont get hurt, thats the idea of the PLF.
ADVICE: once you get a instructor to help you, listen only to what he advices; don't go out asking everybody you meet, what to do, because if you do you will get a complete mixture of knowledge and style and will end up worst than before. Everybody has theyr own style, first learn the basics from a instructor and then make your style.
"Life is full of danger, so why be afraid? be extreme"
drenaline

[billvon 3,070]

>I have about 32 jumps. 10 S/L jumps and 22 FF jumps. I need some serious tips
> about landing downwind. I know that I shouldn't be landing downwind but
> sometimes it just happens to the best of us.
1. Don't land downwind.
2. If you have to, flare and get your feet down, knees bent, feet close together. Get ready to lay yourself down on one side or the other. If you flare well, you will end up with your feet sliding along the ground at 15mph, and you can run it out. If not, drop to your side and keep your knees together, hands and elbows in. You'll slide and tumble in a big cloud of dust, and may lose some skin, but you will probably avoid serious injury.
>The problem was that I realized that I was heading downwind at approximately
>200 to 250 feet AG. I heard way too many horror stories about people turning
> back into the wind and either severely hurting themselves or even dying from it.
> Therefore, the last thing that I wanted to do was to make any hazardous
> adjustments to my flight plan.
Good move.
> flared at about 15 feet but I still nailed the ground pretty hard. I tried to PLF but
> my feet hit the runway like a spike first, then I did two unintentional forward rolls
> on my head to my feet.
That's bad. You can break your neck doing that. Practice landing until you can bring your vertical velocity to zero at ground level. Even if you land at 20mph, zero vertical speed just means a painful slide.
>I need some serious flying tips about how low can I apply a 180 degree turn
>incase I need to turn back into the wind?
Practice up high first. There are two skills:
1. Flat turn. To do this, initiate the turn with one toggle and "flatten" it with the other. You should finish the turn with both brakes down. Once you have stopped turning, release both brakes. If the canopy dives afterwards, use less opposite brake next time. If the canopy was diving during the turn, use more opposite brake next time. You want to be able to release both and have the canopy be at normal flight speed, so you can flare immediately if necessary.
2. Flare turn. Once you start the flare, steer right or left. This requires very small inputs and opposite brake to keep you from "falling over." Depending on the canopy, you should be able to turn from 20-45 degrees as you're planing out.
By combining these two skills, it is possible to turn away from obstacles and/or into the wind from low altitudes. It MUST be practiced up high before it can be used near landing, and when using it near landing, start with modest goals (a 20 degree turn at 50 feet.)
-bill von