cross braced canopies

[SkymonkeyONE 4]

Openings on a Competition Cobalt? Dude, I have never jumped a better opening canopy in my life. It's just a damn nice parachute. Jason, that is the Grey and Red main that I was jumping at ASC at the meet.
As for the Crossfire 2, I have never even seen one, and SkyKat is an Icarus demo center. The way I read it, the Crossfire 2 is a nice flying main, but with a shorter control range like a Stiletto (not my style). I am sure it is a fine canopy, but, once again, I wouldn't pay $200 more dollars for it (minimum) over a Cobalt (stock or competition) just because it says Icarus on it.
Anyway, there is no "best" main out there, period. Every performance canopy has it's merits and shortcomings. Some people will get better performance out of a PD product than an Icarus or Atair product. Others will find the opposite true. Different canopies react different flying styles; what works great under a Velocity will not work worth a crap under something else. As previously stated: try everything, then make your choice based on what you feel; not just because some famous jumper preaches in the latest Parachutist. I have jumped every competitive main out there except the Xaos 27 and am happy to have a Competiton Cobalt over my head. Would I still like to have a crossbraced canopy laying around just for shits and grins? Oh hell yeah, and eventually Dan will get me a correctly sized Onyx to play with. I had a ton of fun with my VX, but it was a shitty everyday canopy and it was harder to get long surfs out of than my current ride.
It's all about jumping what works best for you.
Chuck
Are you a Monkey or a Flunky? HERE

[weid14 0]

I guess I'm sort of curious... if the comp Cobalt is head and sholders above the stock canopy in each area, why not just sell it? just wondering out loud I guess.

[SkymonkeyONE 4]

The CC is not a good parachute for an intermediate jumper. It dives much steeper and flies much faster. The stock Cobalt can be flown slow and easy without any problem, while still being a kick-ass swoop main at heavy wingloads. The CC can't be "dumbed" down. If I were a straight-up swooper looking at both mains, I would of course buy the CC. If I wanted a fantastic all-around main that I could fly the piss out of when I got used to it, then I would choose the stock Cobalt. Two different animals.
Chuck
Are you a Monkey or a Flunky? HERE

[ramon 0]

I sure would like to demo one when I get the time.
the guy at our DZ that demoed one doesn't even use front risers (he just thinks it's cool to downsize) or pack for himself.
I think he gave a poor review to the rest of us.
"wee girls on a skydive road trip on big bikes...... yikes, dykes and bikes kinda thing...... ", David McKelvie

[SkymonkeyONE 4]

Just as a simple comparison, I would say that a CC has bottom end lift of a one size larger Cobalt, but the dive and forward speed of a one size smaller Cobalt. You can load them very heavily and still turn have tremendous lift (without fear of bow-tieing) at the end of the swoop. Eric is still out in Texas screwing off, so you could jump one of his if it isn't too big for you. It is certainly worth a try.
Personally, I am all about jumping other stuff as it comes out. Raeford, like most dropzones used to be completely Stiletto/Javelin. If you were not jumping that combo you were chastised. There is still a lot of that crap going on, but nowadays you see as many Wings and Infinity containers (plus quite a few Mirage) and a great variety of mains. Since I am here, obviously people have a better opportunity to see Atair stuff. There are Cobalts in every size being jumped on this dropzone. Likewise, there are a ton of intermediates jumping Hornets. There are still lots of PD, but more Velocities and Vengeances than before. There are a few Xaos drivers, but a lot more Crossfire pilots. Etc, etc.
Are you a Monkey or a Flunky? HERE

[weid14 0]

ahhh, I see. It seemed that all the reviews saying "best openings ever, best swoop, most powerful, etc" had to be taken in context of a swoop machine not an everyday driver.

[ramon 0]

Big man little canopy...hahaha
He does shut it down pretty good.
I'll ask him this weekend if he has one around 110-100ish.
"wee girls on a skydive road trip on big bikes...... yikes, dykes and bikes kinda thing...... ", David McKelvie

[SkymonkeyONE 4]

Eric Butts competed last June in Perris under a stock 105; fucking nuts. He is about 265 out the door. His current competition model (the green one) is a 120. I load heavier than Eric does, but his larger wing makes him swoop farther. He finished 4th in the PPPB world games last winter. Eric is my brother.
Are you a Monkey or a Flunky? HERE

[rhino 0]

I have a crossfire2.. It has a pretty wide control range actually.. More than the crossfire1 that I had.. Try one if you get a chance.. I am looking forward to trying a cobalt..
Blue Skies .....

[SkymonkeyONE 4]

Actually, I am sure I would love the CF2. There has just not been one around to try. I will make it a point to try and acquire a tiny one and wring it out.
Are you a Monkey or a Flunky? HERE

[craddock 0]

The 27 will be a 94. Should load it between 2.4 and 2.5. That's a little heavy, but I liked the way my 21s flew between 2.3 and 2.4. We'll see.

Jason

[airdrew20012001 0]

I will not respond to you because you have chosen a lame-ass handle. Skygod? Sheesh, get real.

Drewfus McDoofus

[eames 0]

Quote

Very high aspect ratio.

I thought that might be the case, but I was told by Precision that the aspect ratio of the 27 was about the same as the 21. Huh... So what are the differences in flight characteristics? What size/loading was your 21?

Jason

[cobaltdan 0]

icarus fx vs vx, xaos 21 vs 27 same aspect ratio.

only difference is 7 cell vs 9 cell with respect to line set. the 9 cell version will have a slightly lower spanwise distortion as with the same aspect ratio there is a shorter span between ribs on the 9 cell version.

sincerely,

dan
atair

Daniel Preston <><>
atairaerodynamics.com (sport)
atairaerospace.com (military)

[eames 0]

Okay, we got lower spanwise distortion. Probably also a slightly cleaner wing chordwise (since the cross braces cover the entire chord, like Velocity & VX, unlike FX & 21). Same aspect ratio. Same shape? Airfoil & planform? Same trim? I don't know. Anyway...a cleaner, more efficient wing. The one improvement I'm looking for in the 27 over the 21 is more speed maintenance. Even if I've completely nailed a landing on the 21, even when I'm swooping along in rear risers, I feel like it decelerates fairly quickly. I've had slightly better luck on a Velocity. I wonder, will this quality improve on the 27? If it does, and all else is equal, I've found my canopy.

Jason

Oh yeah, the reasons I still prefer a 21 over a Velocity are: better openings and longer control range (I seem to prefer that, especially in front risers). It's mostly the openings though... the Velocity I jumped was like a box of chocolates.

[billvon 3,058]

>the 9 cell version will have a slightly lower spanwise distortion as with
> the same aspect ratio there is a shorter span between ribs on the 9
> cell version.

And, presumably, the 9 cell will have slightly more drag due to the extra lines.

[eames 0]

Quote

And, presumably, the 9 cell will have slightly more drag due to the extra lines.

I believe this is negligible when compared with the drag created by the wing itself (form drag). Especially if the canopy is lined with HMA, Vectran, or Spectra.

Okay, so after only 11 jumps on this canopy, I'm getting longer, faster landings than with my 21. It also carves very easily.

Oh, and this deserves a paragraph for itself... the openings are sweet! Just as nice as the -21 openings. All soft & on heading so far. High altitude, terminal, sub-terminal. Very nice.

Here are some other observations (comparing a -27 94 to a -21 98): the toggle control range is very deep, especially since I have them set about 1.5" longer than the factory settings. The rear riser pressure is higher and rear riser turns are slightly faster. Front riser pressure starts about equal, then builds much higher. Front riser turns may also be slightly faster.... It responds just a bit more to harness input. Forward speed in natural glide is a bit faster and forward speed after a speed building maneuver is a lot faster. It doesn't seem to dive too much more, but it feels like it builds up and maintains a lot more speed.

I might get a new set of lower brake lines, 'cause the ones that it came with are the two piece type that tend to snag on the guide ring. I like the single piece style with a small, double fingertrapped section, that sticks out for the brake settings.

I will say this: this is the canopy that I'll be using in competition.

Jason

Also, thanks to all at Precision (especially Chris) for getting the canopy to me so quickly. I couldn't believe it when my dealer already had it at the beginning of the weekend.

[skyfa 0]

i have a pdf ninja 94, and my weight is 195 pounds naked.(2.57 w.l.).
I think this cannopy is really a good flight tool,because it fly horizontal when you wish,and deep dive whit front risers.
Accept oppinions.
blue skyes and fast,long and save swoops.
skyfa@dropezone.com

[roq 0]

I heard to speak of some Ninja collapses in turbulence, in DZ of Ampuria and in another DZ.
I jumped Ninja 94, without turbulence, and I didn't see any collapse problem. But there was not turbulence in my jumps.
See Safety Bulletin No. 02/2002, Mandatory in http://makeashorterlink.com/?U39711051
I don't like the flying and openings of the Ninja, is very flat and very hard in front risers. Also the openings is not very progressive (my opinion), hard in begin and later with a lot of snivel.
The project and the ninja quality I thought very good.

Roq