Stilleto(spineto) or Springo

[fedykin 0]

how bad is the spinetto effect with the stilletos anyways, i weigh 155lbs(without gear)and have a 135 stiletto, how bad is this twists effect. my body position on opening i am sure has put me into twists with my parachutes de france BT140 a couple of times, but how bad is the twists thing? is it that oftenly bad?
How does the PDF springo compair, if everyone here had a choice, what would they jump if they had the choice?

Thanks

Piers

[nicknitro71 0]

I beg your pardon?

Memento Audere Semper

903

[freeflir29 0]

Sounds like you would be loading your Stilletto about the same as I do mine. I have had line twists maybe 3 or 4 times in ~150 jumps. I think 2 of them were spinning somewhat but none of them were bad. The others flew perfectly straight and stable. I was kinda intimidated by line twists at first because this was my first eliptical canopy but after getting some on like my 5th jump that got me over the fear quickly. It flew perfectly straight while I, in my panic induced by the "Spninnetto" reputation tried to kick the WRONG direction out of the twists. Finally, when I looked up, frustrated because I thought I was going to have to cut it away, I just chuckled. Kicked lightly the opposite direction and it came right out.
At heavier loadings I'm sure this can change. For now....I don't think you have anything to worry about. Sorry, don't know anything about PDF stuff. IN fact, the only PDF canopy I have seen is one we use for water training at the DZ.

[ernokaikkonen 0]

I've jumped both a Stiletto135 and a Springo140. They are two completely different canopies.

Stiletto is much more prone to line-twists on opening. It's just the way the canopy is designed. Many Stiletto-pilots will say that they've never had problems, but it _is_ easier to get twists on a Stiletto than on a Springo.

The feel of the flare is also totally different. To someone used to the "PD-style" flare, the Springo might first seem like a really bad canopy, but it's not. It just requires a different approach. I've only jumped a few jumps on a Springo, so I didn't get the most out of it.

Erno

[hagar 0]

The Stiletto is not that bad, you may even get an onheading opening sometimes!

I have never jumped the Springo, but I have packed them a few times. The only thing I know about it is that it usually opens quite hard. I had to experiment a lot to pack an "surviveable" opening.

---
PCSS #10

[Professor 0]

I've jumped a couple of stillettos, a 150 @ ~1.5 psf for about 25 jumps, and a 120 @ ~ 1.9 about 100 times, and I haven't really ever had bad line twist. A couple times I've had 1/2 or 1 twist, but been able to kick out during the opening, and once I got a bit of a bad twist from opening right off the step (prop wash), but over all I've found them to be great canopies. Like all the other americans, I can't comment on the springo, but I think it is squarer than the Stiletto. The Jedei 136 I used to jump seemed much more prone to twist up, for what it's worth.

Ted

Ted
Like a giddy school girl.

[Kirils 1]

The "Spinnetto" is a reality to those who have never jumped elipticals. It's no problem when someone has eliptical experience. The canopy opens great IF you have a stable pull position and steer with the hips during opening. I jumped a Heatwave and it was the same way. Experience really goes a long way in taming canopy quirks. Stiletto vs Springo??
Stiletto for sure.

"Slow down! You are too young
to be moving that fast!"

Old Man Crawfish

[Kris 0]

My Stiletto has consistently proven to be quite stable. My openings are generally within 10-20 degrees of my intended heading.

The couple of times that I have had line-twists on it, the canopy waited patiently for me to kick out of them. I had one it did try to spin but I was able to get the risers evened and it stopped.

Kris

Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and
Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™

[SkymonkeyONE 4]

Listen, I jumped Stilettos for six years (107 and 97) and NEVER once had to chop a spinner. I weigh 155 pounds, so we are the same size. I had my 97 get two turns on me one time and it dove me hard, but I was able to easily kick out of it. So long as you have secure brakes, decent (straight) packing, and a good body positon at pull, you won't have a problem with a Stilleto.

Chuck

[fedykin 0]

which one would you prefer? which one is more resposive? anything on recovery arcs... how do each compare to Blue Track 140.
cheers

piers

[DaMan 0]

I've flown a Stiletto 150 for about 45 jumps (before downsizing to a Samurai 136) and it was a great "teacher" for remaining still in the seat during the snivel.
Once you get a better feel for the steering by weight shifts, you can pretty well correct most twists as they are beginning. Also, the Stiletto does have a nice recovery arc and is great for getting back from a long spot. Just my 2 cents.

[diver123 0]

How can people say things like this?
-"Stiletto is much more prone to line-twists on opening. It's just the way the canopy is designed. Many Stiletto-pilots will say that they've never had problems, but it _is_ easier to get twists on a Stiletto than on a Springo."
Have you tested the two canopies side by side in identical situations while recording the data that you retrieved? If not, maybe you should preface your statement with something like this: "In my opinion" , not "it_is_easier"... Food for thought maybe.

"pull high! It's lower than you think..."

[PhreeZone 20]

Actually... if you look at the taper angles of the canopies the Stiletto does have more of a taper to the leading edge then what the Springo does. (An old JM had both and showed me at his place the difference when I was a student) Right from a canopy designer from another company he told me the reason that most ellipticals get away from jumpers is they leading edge is too steep and that makes it harder to steer through the openings until its open.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[diver123 0]

You're still basing projected "actual" results on theory rather than reality... Maybe it has more potential to spin, but that doesn't guarantee that it will be the standard when summarizing actual experiences... That's like saying; since a porsche is designed for speed, all porsches will skid out around corners. Line twists are almost 100% based on the pilots actions during opening and flight, not the canopy.

"pull high! It's lower than you think..."

[airdrew20012001 0]

Feh! I have abunch o jumps on all sorts and sizes of eliptical canopies, they all open squirly. Sort of the nature of the beast. I relax and arch (remember that?) after I pitch and get on the risers and the harness right away. Same thing with the alpha 104, crossfire 119, alpha 117, stiletto 135, stiletto 97. The list goes on.

I found that each canopy searches for air, dives around, or what have you in its own way. All can be managed. The biggest thing is to stay relaxed and focused. Just because the skydive is over doesn't mean you stop flying your body that's all.

Drewfus McDoofus

[ernokaikkonen 0]

>Have you tested the two canopies side by side in identical situations while
>recording the data that you retrieved?

Point taken. However, since very few of us have actually conducted scientific studies on any of the topics discussed here, almost everything that's said here is just the opinion or belief of the poster. What I posted is what I believe to be the truth.

I haven't heard any Springo pilots complaining about frequent line twists.

Erno

[diver123 0]

Fully understood... I guess there is an "un-spoken" rule of sorts that underlies most of the info here as opinionated, or at the very least, relative to personal experience. All I was trying to do was bring the attention back to that fact. It's so much more beneficial to rack up personal experiences and observations than to simply take the word of another for this very reason. Blue ones...

"pull high! It's lower than you think..."

[bobsoutar 0]

I am around 195 pounds in my socks and had a Stilletto 150 for about 300 jumps. Occasionally got twists but with the canopy flying flat and happy so just a bit of a pain at the time - no need to cut away. Had 2 bad twisters which were probably caused by a steering line caught under corner of reserve tray - needed to chop in a hurry as you get wound up pretty fast (on your back usually).
I now jump an Icarus Extreme for swooping and a Springo 140 for camera and big ways. The Springo is much less twitchy than the Stilletto used to be and tends to open a little harder (but ok) and on heading more of the time. Landings on the Springo are longer (ie you get a bit more of a surf) so you need to keep your nerve and sit there until it runs out of steam.
Overall I find the Springo more of a no nonsense canopy but you may well need to drop down to a 120 if you want better performance than your Stilletto 135.
Hope this helps. Bloos. Bob.

[Springo 0]

I used to jump a springo 160 - loved it - downsized to a stiletto 135 - loved it - tried a stiletto 120 - really loved it - and bought a springo 120 - which i will probably learn to love !
I will agree to everything that was said with the following:
- The springo flies in a "healthier" way (but is a little less reactive) than the stiletto - more natural stability to the canopy.
- Glide flight is definetely flatter, and makes for some surprises when you transition back to it, i.e looses lots of altitude in sharp turns, but flies "forever" straight and level ...
- Openings witht the springo are less swivelly than the stiletto. Had very few bad opening on either so i would say that both canopies are generally good. (had a couple of line twists on a first opening with my springo 120 > had time to get out of it without any problem / got riser slapped by the stiletto...none of these pack jobs were mine )
Well, i would say that any canopy is good if you learn to play with it and you treat it with the respect due to high performance equipment !!!!