flyhy 0 #1 September 19, 2002 One of my friends (55 jumps) is going to buy his first own rig. Therefore he wants to try as many different canopies as possible before buying one. He also wants to jump the 135 sabre of his friend. We told him that it's too early for downsizing that much (he's only been jumping 210 F111 student canopies before, sabre 170 once), but his reply is: he doesn't want to buy that 135, only wants to TRY it once. BTW he's got about 80kgs and landed the sabre 170 in some cornfield when he tried to get back to the dz in strong winds. He did a very low turn into the wind that a 135 probably wouldn't forgive... How can we make him change his mind about these 'experiments' and convince him that 'once' can already be too much? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rgoper 0 #2 September 19, 2002 your question may be valid, but without you posting your name, etc...in your credentials, it's hard to take you seriously. how do we know your not talking about yourself? mr. "don't panic" you guys crack me up!--Richard-- "We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #3 September 19, 2002 QuoteHow can we make him change his mind about these 'experiments' and convince him that 'once' can already be too much? Maybe show him some pics of Chilirelleno's foot and X-rays. Probably won't work. Just be honest. Tell him he is a complete idiot and is probably going to die. BTW...why is his "friend" willing to let him fly that canopy? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyhy 0 #4 September 19, 2002 Are you crazy? What difference would it make to write my name in it? It's still my friend who's going to jump with a wing load of about 1.5 with 55 jumps! I don't have that much more experience (see profile) but I'm jumping the sabre 170, wing load 1.0/1.1! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyhy 0 #5 September 19, 2002 His friend bought that canopy when he had about 85 jumps. He's been really good in his landings yet. So he maybe thinks that everybody can jump that thing... dunno... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rgoper 0 #6 September 19, 2002 QuoteWhat difference would it make to write my name in it? it would afford you validity. right now you strike me as a "troll" i could be wrong, but we've already got another running around in here saying he's done a base jump with a quilt, you see where i'm going? why would you NOT want to identify yourself? if you've nothing to hide? you'd be better recieved if you were to fill out your credentials, but whether you do or not, posting here about your buddie wanting to jump a pair of panties for a parachute isn't going to save his life.--Richard-- "We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyhy 0 #7 September 19, 2002 So what IS going to save his life?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdhill 0 #8 September 19, 2002 In my opinion, a F111 210 to a ZP 135 is waaaay to big a step, particularly if they almost hurt themselves under a 170... I does not matter if it is "a friend" or yourself... you may never convince that person that it is not a good idea... the best thing to do is prevent that person from getting said canopy... best yet, put the issue in the hands of the DZO or S&TA or instructors... one of them should be qualified to make the call and have authority to enforce it. Trying a number of canopies is a good idea, but they need to be appropriately sized and have a logical down sizing progression... the mentality that "I don't want to have to buy another rig in 100-200 jumps because I will want a new canopy that won't fit" can get someone hurt... I kept my first container for 3 different canopy sizes (190/170/150). By the time I got to the 150 it was not the prettiest thing, but it worked and was still safe... The best canopy pilots in the world have worked their way down slowly.All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rgoper 0 #9 September 19, 2002 QuoteSo what IS going to save his life?? 1) not jumping that canopy 2) you knock him unconcious 3) tell the nimrod that's going to lend him the canopy to "back the f**k up" 4) advise the S&TA, and the DZO of what is about to occur. 5) hand him a colt commander .45 ACP and tell him it's less painless that way. beyound that, i don't know what to tell you.--Richard-- "We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyhy 0 #10 September 19, 2002 Apart from that it really doesn't matter, it's NOT me.. I'm normally posting in this forum asking how to land my sabre 170 properly. I wouldn't even dream of jumping something smaller yet. But that's another story.. The problem with these two guys is that they think the smaller the canopy they jump the cooler they are! He didn't even realise that he sort of fucked up the landing with the 170. He didn't get injured so everythings alright... although he made some bad decisions up there resulting from lack of experience?! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #11 September 19, 2002 Quotewill he kill himself? Yeah . . . probably. I can't believe you even needed to ask the question.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rgoper 0 #12 September 19, 2002 QuoteI can't believe you even needed to ask the question. and i thought it was just me. it might not kill him, but it won't do him any good either.--Richard-- "We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #13 September 19, 2002 Sounds like your friend is either going to die or learn to be a really good pilot REALLY quick.. It is more up to the jackass that is letting him jump the 135.. Rhino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rgoper 0 #14 September 19, 2002 QuoteSounds like your friend is either going to die or learn to be a really good pilot REALLY quick Rhino: i don't know, i believe that at around 1000' AGL he'll be in "sensory overload" stuff justs be happning too fast!--Richard-- "We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VivaHeadDown 0 #15 September 20, 2002 If you can't talk sense into him, try to push the hop'n'pop, with a straight in approach. With everthing new and fast, it's the only way everyone else on the load will be safe. The scary part is low to the ground maneuvoring around in the landing pattern. He's not going to be used to the speed in which his responses will have to happen. Hell, with a 210 he's probably one of the last out so rarely has to worry about the "other guy factor". It's always the other guy who gets hurt in these situations. I still remember the canadian skyhawk who's para-career ended when the other guy with too small canopy made the wrong decision with too little time to correct. The other guy still jumps, the canadian has limiting back injuries for life. If you can't save one guy, save the other 20. How can he argue with that? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #16 September 20, 2002 I agree... If someone isn't use to that speed.. ESPECIALLY tthe increase he is going to see he is asking for trouble.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 4 #17 September 20, 2002 This person absolutlely does not need to be jumping anything loaded at 1.5 with that limited experience. I find myself having to be the bad guy fairly often on my DZ when it comes to canopy flight infractions. Likewise, my friend Stephen Lee has to do the same when some kid in student gear walks up to the mockup and proclaims that he is going to do some head-down. The problem is, today's skydivers just have to get instant gratification. Very few want to "pay their dues" and work at it in a common sensical manner. Back in the day, the great majority of jumpers were perfectly happy jumping 223 square foot canopies that you could do anything with (the Pegasus). When smaller stuff came out, only the very-fringe of the sport was interested, seeing as how the very-best skydivers and competitors were still jumping larger, reliable gear. People called you an idiot and made fun of you if you jumped small mains, saying you were just asking for trouble. Decades later, the truth is revealed: we have a lot of trouble with people piling in under too-small mains. Young jumpers need only look at the incident reports on this site, and those in Parachutist to see the truth. You see, it's certainly not only low-time jumpers getting hurt, it's generally the people they look up to: the cool freefly guy or RW competitor. Guys who have all the airskills they need, but for one reason or another, did not "stay ahead" of their canopy. All that being said, I try my best to educate the jumpers on our dropzone in the "do's and don'ts. Still, there will always be that guy out there who sneaks by and somehow manages to get away with jumping a too-small canopy. When they biff a landing, they always have an excuse. In the end, it's up to the DZO or S&TA to tighten that guy up, but it's everyone's responsibility to police our own. Chuck Blue D-12501 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
