LittleSkyWitch 0 #1 March 20, 2003 I'm hesitating..... I have 150+ jumps... The previous season I was jumping a Hornet 135... My weight is 49... So the loading leaves much to be desired The season approaching I'd like to change my main and start learning swooping. BUT! I don't know what size and canopy is better for my case... I was offered Stiletto 120 but I consider it to be too sharp and demanding more experience than I have... So, I have only ????? __*______________________________ Little SkyWitch http://www.skydiveua.info ______________________________*__ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #2 March 20, 2003 Why change your main, then start learning how to do high performance landings? That's a recipe for injury. Start slow, with the canopy that you have. Go to some canopy courses with it, learn it. Get to where you're swooping the snot out of the canopy you have now before you downsize. Wingloading is NOT a magic swooping pill, it is a magic hurtyourself pill, though. I've seen people outswoop a lots of others, jumping our student gear (no they weren't students). My favorite was a killer swoop executed on our Navigator 300, it was very nice. Its all about your skills as a canopy pilot.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 4 #3 March 20, 2003 Correct. Technically, you can start on anything as the principles are the same. Hell, Rick Neely used to hook a ParaFoil! Nothing wrong with learning to swoop under a Hornet. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LittleSkyWitch 0 #4 March 20, 2003 I'd like to continue jumping the Hornet, but it wasn't mine I borrowed it. And now I have no choice and anyway have to got a new one... So. that's why I'm looking for a piece of advice concearning the canopy... Thanks for replies __*______________________________ Little SkyWitch http://www.skydiveua.info ______________________________*__ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AntiPinkChrissy 0 #5 March 20, 2003 I think that 150+ jumps is not enough experience with canopies in general to start swooping a canopy. There is so much to learn about your wing and how it reacts to different input that at 150 jumps you don't have the experience to swoop And I agree with the others, to start out on a larger canopy and learn. I had someone swoop the hell out of my PD170, coolest part everyone say my canopy being swooped and thought it was me..hehe ~La La Gang Member #2~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #6 March 21, 2003 I don't think there is any reason to say you shouldn't start learning the dynamics of canopy control that will lead you to swooping at 150 jumps. Now, I'm not saying on the next load go up and rip a hard 360 and hope. I started learning about a year ago at about 100 jumps or so. Reading everything I could get my hands on, getting canopy coaching, listening and learning from experienced canopy pilots, etc. A strong foundation of knowledge is key to success. Couple that with a gradual learning curve and experience and you'll have a good start. Too far, too fast = broken body or death.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AntiPinkChrissy 0 #7 March 21, 2003 That is a great idea to learn the dynamics of canopy control before starting to swoop, because many people don't. I can't tell you how many toggle whippers I see (well, maybe not that many, but they are scary) that watch these experienced swoopers making it look sooo easy and don't realize the dynamics behind what makes a canopy do what it does. They don't understand how many jumps these swoopers have and how many times they have dug themselves out of a swoop and saved themselves only because they have a lot of jumps and experience to do it. Knowledge is key. ~La La Gang Member #2~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LukeOliver 0 #8 March 21, 2003 How's this for a plan: Ask the folks you'll be jumping with and around if they think you 49kg on a 135 canopy is a good place for you to be at the moment. It may well be a good place to stay for a while - smaller canopies will always be there waiting, and a 135 won't be a problem to resell. Then, buy a canopy in that size that the folks around you understand so you can more easily continue your education. Buy the best condition ZeroP canopy you can, paying particular attention to the lineset. Then, go learn some craft with it Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Unutsch 0 #9 March 22, 2003 QuoteHell, Rick Neely used to hook a ParaFoil! Chuck swoops on this dinosaurs look awesome, not to mention how gentle the touch down is Check out the site of the Fallen Angels FreeflY Organisation: http://www.padliangeli.org Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LittleSkyWitch 0 #10 March 22, 2003 The link doesn't work So is it ok to take Stiletto 120? __*______________________________ Little SkyWitch http://www.skydiveua.info ______________________________*__ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #11 March 22, 2003 QuoteSo is it ok to take Stiletto 120? Did you read my response and Chuck Blue's response to my response?--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LittleSkyWitch 0 #12 March 22, 2003 yeah.... to read everything I run into and...aaaaaa..... don't be so fast By the way, and who is Chuck Blue? I haven't noticed his nick...... __*______________________________ Little SkyWitch http://www.skydiveua.info ______________________________*__ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #13 March 22, 2003 Chuck Blue is SkymonkeyOne. He's a professional Swooper who runs the canopy school at Raeford, is on the PD swooping team and has been jumping for longer then I've been alive. Basically, he knows what he's talking about. --"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #14 March 23, 2003 Quote who is Chuck Blue? "Chuck Blue, Skydive Raeford, go fast, take chances, don't wear a helmet". A quote from the 2001 Pond Swoop Nationals video. What's funny about that quote is that SkymonkeyOne does wear a helmet. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 273 #15 March 23, 2003 QuoteSo is it ok to take Stiletto 120? That depends. Are you comfortable with the idea of landing an elliptical 120 sq ft canopy in a bad area (small, congested, and/or off dz)? Did you fly that Hornet using all available control inputs (toggles, rear risers, front risers)? Can you flat turn and flare turn under that Hornet 135? If you answer no to any of those questions, you may be better off buying something equivalent to what you've been jumping, both in size and aggressiveness. There's a lot to be said for learning to swoop under a canopy that's big enough to allow you room to screw up and still walk back to the packing area. You might want to take a look at this before you make your decision (the website is down at the moment, but it will likely be up by Monday). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LukeOliver 0 #16 March 24, 2003 QuoteSo is it ok to take Stiletto 120? It's all OK, until you have to land downwind in a city street at night. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stilettodude 0 #17 March 24, 2003 "OUCH" "HOW LOW CAN YOU GO?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #18 March 24, 2003 Ok, here's something new for you! Go to the General Skydiving forum. Click on my story. That's how a normal skydive can go from good to almost dead when jumping a fully elliptical canopy!--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LittleSkyWitch 0 #19 March 24, 2003 Frankly speaking I have no desire to end swooping without any starting. Thanks for all advices.... no hurry no headache Peace! Yohhh!!! __*______________________________ Little SkyWitch http://www.skydiveua.info ______________________________*__ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #20 March 24, 2003 I'm not telling you to NOT swoop. I'm definately not the right person to say that (I swoop). I just want you to understand everything else that is involved with flying a high performance canopy.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #21 March 24, 2003 QuoteThat's how a normal skydive can go from good to almost dead when jumping a fully elliptical canopy! I disagree. I think your story is a good example of how a normal skydive can go from good to almost dead when the jumper stops paying attention to his surroundings. It wasn't the canopy's fault that you ended up where you did at the altitude you did. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #22 March 24, 2003 No, but if I had been under something not as heavily loaded and not a high performance canopy, then I probably wouldn't have been in that situation to begin with AND I wouldn't have burned through as much altitude as I did fixing it.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #23 March 24, 2003 QuoteNo, but if I had been under something not as heavily loaded and not a high performance canopy, then I probably wouldn't have been in that situation to begin with AND I wouldn't have burned through as much altitude as I did fixing it. You can try and put the blame back on the canopy, but in the end it was your inability to deal with an emergency situation that put you in the mess you were in. It wasn't the fault of the inanimate object, it was you. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RichM 0 #24 March 24, 2003 Quote Quote So is it ok to take Stiletto 120? That depends. Are you comfortable with the idea of landing an elliptical 120 sq ft canopy in a bad area (small, congested, and/or off dz)? Did you fly that Hornet using all available control inputs (toggles, rear risers, front risers)? Can you flat turn and flare turn under that Hornet 135? If you answer no to any of those questions, you may be better off buying something equivalent to what you've been jumping, both in size and aggressiveness. There's a lot to be said for learning to swoop under a canopy that's big enough to allow you room to screw up and still walk back to the packing area. You might want to take a look at this before you make your decision (the website is down at the moment, but it will likely be up by Monday). Cathy Travers, one of our full time instructors at Headcorn (now retired) had to land in a busy high street in Thailand under a Stiletto 120 after a bad spot. She managed to put it down in the direction of the traffic between a lorry and a car. The car kindly stopped rather than run her over. She did break a heel however It's the most extreme case of tough landing I've heard of although I'll bet there are more. It didn't stop me learning to swoop though Rich M Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #25 March 24, 2003 QuoteIt wasn't the fault of the inanimate object, it was you. Didn't I admit that? Funny, I thought I had, maybe you should go back and re-read my thread?--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
