conflict after canopy ride

[michaelflying 0]

Question you do a two way with a guy you know and trust but ther are four of you on the load. you all decide to go for the pit "competition" for cokes. A jumper loading less than you on the samwe canopy a hornet 150 spirals in front of you then you have to go wide to get out of his way so you let him go down fair enough the he gets onto back risers and give you now where to go so why spiral. you land now where near where you planed but OK raqther be safe. You ask him why he says could not see you or the guy you jumped with. If ther are meant to be four canopies in the sky should you not make sure you can see four. How do you approach this guy.

www.skydivekzn.co.za

[Zenister 0]

if your doing an accuracy competition into a small area (pit/peas) shouldnt you come up with a landing order (possiblly based on windloading) before you exit???

that would avoid the conflict in the first place.

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[michaelflying 0]

yeh that is a solution we have discussed but ther is always a cow boy around thanks

www.skydivekzn.co.za

[Samurai136 0]

You could either get out after him and leave a longer separation or tell him, before you get out, that he needs to leave a 10 second interval between you.

Basically, just stay away from him.

Or explain that low canopy has the right of way. If he didn't see you, that is his fault . Present him with the scenario where he doesn't see you and spirals into you and you have no out. You're both screwed. Before any diving manuver it is the pilot's responsibility to insure he has clear air space for the manuver. Just because he pulled it off doesn't mean it was safely done.

Have this second conversation with him over the first pitcher of beer before he gets too drunk.

Ken

"Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian
Ken

[Tonto 1]

Damn Cowboys. Don't share a load with him. Works for me.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[michaelflying 0]

agreed however The CI has had a few with him hope it will wake him up he will be at margate so hope he shines up before there are more than 3 canopies to look at thanks later***eat drink and make merry for tomorrow you die

www.skydivekzn.co.za

[Tonto 1]

Be careful out there. Traffic can be a killer - and if you know there's a problem there - stay away from it.

Enjoy the boogie - and say hi to Erno from Finland for me. And Bluefingers.


t

It's the year of the Pig.

[michaelflying 0]

will do shot



eat drink and make merry for tomorrow you die

www.skydivekzn.co.za

[AggieDave 6]

Hey now, I'm a bit of a Cowboy: truck, jeans, cowboy boots, hat, country music, etc...

Here's my take...pull him aside, explain what has been said thusfar about keeping canopies in visual range, and I would probably stay well away from him in the air for a while. Not on the same loads as him, etc.

I don't mind people who make mistakes and were unsafe, but have a good attitude about learning. You know that they will learn and you can work with them. I have a real problem with people who make mistakes then have a fuck off attitude when it comes to people trying to help them.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[canopywhore 0]

I would say it all depends on how well you know the person. If it is someone you know well I would wait until after you packed and your adrenaline has subsided a little bit. I find that debriefs at the pit can get a little hot. On the other hand if you have talked to him about it before I might not wait till later. I also go over and talk to someone if I feel I cut them off or took away their out. Sometimes I end up jumping with a guy that doesn't give enough separation on exit and low pulls. I make sure everybody on the DZ knows about it so he won't hurt them someday.

[ianmdrennan 2]

Hi,

Difficult situation - always is. Generally I try and get the person 1 on 1 and ask them to how their dive went, etc to break the ice. Then I ask them about their landing procedure, how they planned it and executed it.

Once they've described it to me I explain the situation they placed us in and suggest alternative approaches while trying to find something good about their procedure (not always easy I know).

Discuss vertical as well as horizontal seperation. Encourage them to lurk about on brakes until they know where everyone is. With only four canopies in the sky there's really no excuse not being able to account for all of them.

My 0.02 cents.

Good luck and blue skies
Ian
ps: How's the weather in sunny S.A. I certainly do miss it sometimes.

Performance Designs Factory Team

[Tonto 1]

Yeah... Sorry about the cowboy quip... But we have a "wild one" who's a REAL slow learner. People are breaking around him, and he has over 1200 dives... to me - that's too slow a learner..

It's the year of the Pig.

[michaelflying 0]

weather good thanks for the advice

[michaelflying 0]

gave Eron your message saw him last night Kerry too (blue...)

www.skydivekzn.co.za

[ccowden 0]

Explain the situation to an instructor or S&TA and get their take. Then have them approach this person. That way you don't look like a sky god and they are more likely to take what thet say to heart.

[andy2 0]

your approach to him is key! You can avoid him or you can work close with him and teach him. The latter is the most desired as its a problem you wont have to worry about anymore if you teach him out of his bad habits(that is if youre qualified enough). Most people are more than willing to learn.

---------------------------------------------
let my inspiration flow,
in token rhyme suggesting rhythm...

[Spizzzarko 0]

Who cares how you approach the dude. If there is a basic safety violation, then let the dude know. Maybee the root of the problem is having more people aiming to land at the exact same place at the exact same time. I believe there is nothing wrong with landing out. Look at the bigger drop zones such as Perris, and Elsinore. Their swoop area's are pretty far away from the main landing area's. A good canopy pilot doesn't always have to land in the pit. And by the way, yeas a man can eat 50 eggs... I saw Cool Hand Luke do it once. "I'm shakin' the bush Boss"

[freakydiver 0]

I remember having a couple of hundred jumps and thinking I was the proverbial SH*%. First time down to Z-Hills and I really was quite abundant with the self-confidence. I ended up getting a tad bit overwhelmed when seeing 25 canopies in the air all at once and cut off Pip Redvers on final. He gave me an earful (maybe even two or three earfulls), and it was well deserved and since then I look around all of the time I am under canopy. Since then I've been fortunate enough to get back on Pip's good side and have been invited on many kick ass skydives. Thanks Pip for making me feel like garbage that day, it made me a safer more aware skydiver...

-- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

[michaelflying 0]

the dude in question has got an ear lull from the CI and i even did a pack job for him and packed it nicely so I have recovered. The thing is a mate of mine is a rigger and works for a major manufactorer in SA and he said in skydiving you bury your mistakes so we all need to fast learners.

www.skydivekzn.co.za

[rhino 0]

Bingo.. Zenister is right on.