freakydiver 0 #1 August 20, 2003 I made a little clip of a baloon jump I attempted to vid and also my swoop afterwords... I'm starting to get pretty comfortable with nice smooth 180's on my Sabre 135 loaded at 1.5-1.6 ish and am wondering what you all think about it. http://www.mylebaronproperty.com/baloonSwoop.wmv -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." -- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #2 August 20, 2003 I've got to say, I know that 180 degree approach. When did you do this? Judging from the brown grass, it looks like from a few months ago. PS: Nice job keeping the balloon in frame. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freakydiver 0 #3 August 20, 2003 Well the swoop was like last Friday and the baloon was like last month actually heheh... I'm starting to get dialed back in to the freaking 5200 msl lz... Edited: Oh yah - how bout that baloon exit, i was rollin the windows down tryin not to lose it lolol... I wish I could do hundreds of dead air exits mmm... Oh yah, it wasn't quite a 180 either more like a 140 or sumthin heh. -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." -- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freakydiver 0 #4 August 20, 2003 No opinions? Please people rip me a new one here... lolol -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." -- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 4 #5 August 20, 2003 Rip you a new what? The jump looked fun and the turn looked safe. Peace, Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflydrew 0 #6 August 20, 2003 Nice vid... I'm about to be hyper critical, but I do agree with Chuck that it's certainly a safe swoop... Here's where I'm coming from... I'm getting to a point where I try to dive my canopy by initiating a riser turn, and then letting go of the riser and allowing the canopy to plane out on it's own... I've found that pumping the riser, or just holding it down for more than 2 or 3 seconds ends up with a short swoop because my body has already swung down, and I've practically returned to straight flight, except that I'm making the canopy descend faster by holding down the riser, even if I'm "carving the turn". When I first started messing with the risers I was on a Sabre 170, loaded at about 1.1. I would hang from the riser until I felt that it was time to ease up for a second or so and then give a little toggle to initiate my "swoop". After continuing to not change my method, my "swoops" got better, but I found myself stuck at a certain length, speed, and style. Then it dawned on me that my approach was a little backwards... From that point on, and still now I made a serious effort to totally change my technique. Here's my quick little breakdown of the swoop. I'm doing left hand 270s... ok? First 90 is usually a harness turn, then as the canopy turns, I initiate a canopy dive with a riser pull that goes from less aggressive, to more aggressive, but lasts around 1 or 2 seconds, about the time it takes to bring the canopy around that remaining 180 degrees. From this point on, no matter how high I am, I do not pull down on the front risers again. I allow the canopy to plane out and apply toggle where necessary to complete the landing. If I was too high, I allow the canopy to plane out, and I land it with out surfing the grass. I honestly believe that from this methoed you will learn much more than if you were to just tug and tug and tug, until you give toggle. When I watched your swoop, I had a couple of thoughts... First, I know that it was a balloon jump and there was no one in the sky, but I think the majority of people who have dialed in their swoop don't spiral down to the altitude where they initiate their dive... They spend time in full flight or brakes, looking for the perfect altitude, and aiming for the perfect setup, which results in the perfect swoop... why not fly like that when you're trying to figure things out? It looks to me like you kept pulling down on the front risers until you had to let go and pull down on the toggles... it seems to have resulted with a pretty short swoop. When you keep the riser down for so long, and pull out with the toggles, you've killed any distance from your swoop. I'm assuming that because you jumped out of a balloon that there was little to no wind slowing you down?... I'm not saying you're not doing good, or anything like that... I'm simply breaking down what I see and responding to it. Sometimes it helps if you completely change the was that you are trying something to jump to another level... just stay safe, mindful, predictable, and heads up. Try to post some video from the outside for more accurate responses. Good Luck -drew Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freakydiver 0 #7 August 21, 2003 All points taken... Actually, the baloon jump was a completely different jump than the one I was landing. I usually look around a ton more, but the landing was after a cessna load with two tandems and myself. I knew I had no one to worry about. I'm used to big ass DZs in the midwest where if I don't have my head on a freakin swivel, I will die . Also, I didn't really spiral down continuously to get to my initiation alti - I did one 360 after checking my altimeter to get to my initiation alti, after my high alti check, I usually begin just using horizon aspect to gauge where I am at to being the carve. I ended up at my comfortable 6 second carving riser setup alititude after the one 360 and a little correction towards the right. This was planned and not just for kicks by any means. Question though - is a six second carve killing speed or creating any safety issues? Also, imho - I slowly let up on my front left riser at about 35 feet, i don't really think I just hung on it until the last possible scary moment, thats just the way I learned on front double riser approaches... I definately stabbed the toggles a bit too much, but I've always had problems with that. If you can believe, that was one of the lesser examples of my tendency to be stabby. I do see and do understand your points though. The thing is, I don't want to do anything more than smooth slow carvers. I consider 270s, 360s and on and on, way above my level. But I did go measure where I considered the start and end of my swoop and it was about 110-120 feet - I guess my question is, is that shitty for a Sabre 135 loaded at 1.5 ish? I do appreciate your comments though, and you definately have me thinking about where I am at currently in my slow ass swoop progression and where I'd like to get to. Blue ones... -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." -- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflydrew 0 #8 August 21, 2003 35 feet is a little low to be letting go of the front risers... A 6 second carve isn't necessarily killing speed. You're going faster than if you don't use the riser, and slower than if you were to do more than carve... You're going to be able to plane out further than if you did a straight in approach without risers, but much shorter than if you did more of a dramatic turn with the riser and allowed the canopy to fly through it's own natural recovery arc. Broh' there was nothing shitty about any of that swoop, ok? I was being extrememly critical, and it seems like you are really aware of what it is you're doing, where you're doing it, and when you're doing it... Slow progression means safe progression, and it looks and sounds like you're being heads up about the whole thing. Shitty swoops are ones where people turn low, stab it out, and think that they rock... They usually freak out people on the ground, and disturb people in the air... They think that they have it all sorted out... Don't worry about your wing loading, and your swoop distance and put away the tape measure... You're doing great! So let's see some outside vid, aa-ight! -drew Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freakydiver 0 #9 August 21, 2003 Gotcha gotcha - just tryin to learn... I really do appreciate your initial and secondary comments FO SHO so don't get me wrong... It seems like my Sabre really starts flying out of its dive (or rather planing planeing? lol ???) rather quickly on letting up on the front riser? Is this normal? Is this what ground hungriness, or in my case lack of it, is? I'm more afraid than anything or eating it, just wanted to see what yall think I might be doing wrong that might get me into the shitcan... I am totally looking to get reemed and appreciate an extremely critical view of me, it can only help me to improve... Anyhow - thanks as always! -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." -- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
raymod2 1 #10 August 22, 2003 What? You're trying to swoop a Sabre? It can't be done. You also can't wheelie a shaft driven motorcycle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kris 0 #11 August 22, 2003 QuoteWhat? You're trying to swoop a Sabre? It can't be done. You also can't wheelie a shaft driven motorcycle. Oh, I beg to differ. There's a jumper at my old DZ (who is currently my rigger) who can do some positively wicked things on a first-gen Sabre. I've seen him do over 200' on it. Also, ask Chuck (SkymonkeyONE) how he likes his Sabre2.Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #12 August 22, 2003 Yup, I've seen jumpers flat swoop the snot out of their Sabre-1. Remember, in the right hands, just about anything can be swooped. Some canopies do better then others, but just about anything can be swooped.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Xaosrules 0 #13 August 22, 2003 It's not possible to swoop a Sabre??? What kind of bullshit is that. What do you think people used to swoop with in the early 90's??? I have seen Rickster Powell an other PD jumpers swoop their Sabre better then most people can swoop any canopy. Does anybody know what "the circle of death" is?? Its have been done with a Sabre. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #14 August 22, 2003 You really don't think this do you?"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #15 August 22, 2003 QuoteYou really don't think this do you? I saw sarcasm all over his post.... but maybe I'm wrong.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #16 August 22, 2003 QuoteI saw sarcasm all over his post.... but maybe I'm wrong. I did also, but you never know.... Can you wheelie a shaft cycle? I don't know. I do know you can swoop a Sabre."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freakydiver 0 #17 August 22, 2003 I think I'm swooping my Sabre actually if you check out the video - 110-120 feet - does that such or something? I don't really have the desire to downsize anytime soon as that other small stuff looks really really fast! Any opinions or suggestions of the vid? -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." -- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #18 August 22, 2003 Can't download video at work....Your here and able to move so I gues you did it ok."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freakydiver 0 #19 August 22, 2003 What? There's a Sabre2?? If only I had some cash! -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." -- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freakydiver 0 #20 August 22, 2003 Well shoot then Ron, I'm movin on to a 21cell crossbraced 60sqaure footer than. I'll show you swoop! -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." -- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #21 August 22, 2003 QuoteWell shoot then Ron, I'm movin on to a 21cell crossbraced 60sqaure footer than. I'll show you swoop! Cool! Here carry this in your jumpsuit, and in your rig: WHEN I crater: 1. Quickly rinse the rig minus CYPRES in Woolite and cold water to remove blood. 2. Hang out of the sun to dry. 3. Box up the gear, not the body (Let the funeral home to that). And send it to Ron c/o Skydive City, Zephyhills, FL. 33540 About how long till I have my new rig? Ron"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freakydiver 0 #22 August 22, 2003 ROFL - okay okay, I'll stick to my shitty ol Sabre(1) (I guess I need to start specifiying 1 eh ) 135 square foot beast Hell, it still scares me a little up here at these altis in Denver, thats all I need - not scared alot!! -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." -- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
apoil 0 #23 August 22, 2003 Quote Can you wheelie a shaft cycle? I don't know. I do know you can swoop a Sabre. you can wheelie a shaft cycle, but saying you can't is basically a motorcycling equivalent of saying you can't swoop a sabre. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
raymod2 1 #24 August 23, 2003 QuoteQuote Can you wheelie a shaft cycle? I don't know. I do know you can swoop a Sabre. you can wheelie a shaft cycle, but saying you can't is basically a motorcycling equivalent of saying you can't swoop a sabre. I was going to use the "can't wheelie a shaft cycle" defense in traffic court but the cop didn't show up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freakydiver 0 #25 August 25, 2003 I think that's a small swoop I performed !! -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." -- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
