How to get the most out of a canopy control class??.. .

[SkydiveNFlorida 0]

Emma, i'm certainly sorry to hear that you broke your legs, and of the friends you lost. That sux. :( I will try to be careful. I am not snubbing people, i'm just saying that i'm comfortable on this canopy at the .9:1 wingloading, if flies nice, and it is what i'm in the process of buying.

thanks again for everyones concern. I would like to request that no more replies be made in this thread, being that they are not on topic. The thread was about how I could intake the most knowledge from this course. What I could read, what I could practice. NOT what size canopy I should jump.

Angela.

[skysquiffy 0]

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Emma, i'm certainly sorry to hear that you broke your legs, and of the friends you lost. That sux. :( I will try to be careful. I am not snubbing people, i'm just saying that i'm comfortable on this canopy at the .9:1 wingloading, if flies nice, and it is what i'm in the process of buying.

thanks again for everyones concern. I would like to request that no more replies be made in this thread, being that they are not on topic. The thread was about how I could intake the most knowledge from this course. What I could read, what I could practice. NOT what size canopy I should jump.

Angela.

Then you truly don't understand this sport and how this community works. So if you said you were going to a 107 then that should be disregarded too? Because that wasn't your original question? Noone should speak up because you think it "flies nice". What possible basis of comparison do you have? All you're saying is you haven't biffed in yet.

You aren't jumping in a bubble. You can choose to ignore people (unless it's your S&TA), but that doesn't mean others will stop speaking and advising. It's not necessarily your wingloading that's scary, it's your cavalier attitude.

Yeah, I guess you could say that people dying and breaking bones "sux"

[trigger 0]

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!TOUCHE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

.CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER.

[SkydiveNFlorida 0]

geez, ya know, it isn't like I started out with a nasty attitude, even when people expressed concern. Just because I don't say, ok, i'll jump a 170, everyone jumps down my throat because that is what they think I should do. I know i'm not jumping in a bubble, and I do not have an i'm not gonna get hurt attitude normally, I was basically put on the defense here. So, think what you will of me, really there isn't much I can do about that short of upsizing to a 170sf canopy, now is there?

I wasn't trying to make light of people dying and breaking bones, btw. I do apologize that it came off that way. I suppose I could've been more endearing. Please understand that everyone here has come with a story of people hurt and dying and tried to relate that to my nasty attitude, so, to create a long reply to each of these is simply not feasible. I do not wish for anyone to die or be hurt, but it is a part of the sport and I can't change that. And, yes, it sux.

I hope everyone gets over this thread. I am not upsizing, as snooty as you may think it sounds. I am not irresponsible, and I do not think i'm invincible, I simply feel safe and am comfortable with the 150 and that is what i'll be flying. So, regardless of if you have a story of a girl, exactly my size, same # of jumps, who flew a 150sf and died, you have to understand that in my eyes, the same thing could also happen under a 170. It is easy to fuck up. Yes, the 150 will turn a bit faster, fly a bit faster, and you'll have to be a bit more careful than under a 170. I will try to do that.

Angela.

[AriWeil 0]

At this point a long response isn't warranted, the only question I would have is have you talked to your S&TA about your choices? Better to discuss this with him/her beforehand than be labeled a danger and/or grounded while you're exercising "caution" during your "conservative" learning process.

[SkydiveNFlorida 0]

In short, no.

[Albatross 0]

O.K. I am a self proclaimed Canopy Nazi and I will say that the down size seems a bit fast to me but with good coaching and Canopy control classes it is not obsene. The part that I will rail on is the lack of a distinct pattern. Bottom line is that in both canopy courses that I have ben to they say basicly the same thing. Develop a site picture and a pattern. Know where you are going to be when you start the downwind, base and final for any approach. By doing this you can figure out how to land in a particular spot and what your turns and landings are like.
Fly the snot out this canopy at this wingloading and you will learn a ton

Chris

[SkydiveNFlorida 0]

Thanks. I will certainly work on that alone, and i'm sure with Scott. I guess I haven't seen it as too important, as long as i'm into the wind on final, but I can understand that it is important as being unpredictible with other canopies around is not a good thing. I will work out a plan b4 jumping when I go to z-hills in a couple weekends. I also understand that it seems like quite a large downsize, 40sf, and it is. But, i'm sure that it isn't that uncommon on people coming off of student canopies. No one wants to buy a monster large canopy when they know that it will be outgrown in no time. I for one was not going to post, "hey, everyone, i'm downsizing 40sf!!". I should have left canopy size out of this thread. Not to say that the advice given isn't worth hearing, but i'm sick of being flamed, and at this point it has all been said.

That said, I doubt i'll post anything next time I downsize, until i've put 100 jumps on it.

thx.
Angela.

[freeflydrew 0]

Why don't you buy a used canopy in between (like a 190 or something) and jump that for a little while? After you've learned a little more, you could sell it for the same that you'd originally paid for it and purchase a smaller one.

It is uncommon for ANYONE to downsize 40 sq ft....just so you know, and judging from your most recent response, you don't even know how much you still have to consider during canopy flight, and learn to pilot/land safely....

Take the safe route, not the naive one!

Scott will definitely teach you a lot... All the freedom of flight guys are really great!

[SkydiveNFlorida 0]

ok, i'll upsize to a 190sf canopy. yep, that's what i'll do.

I really hope this conversation is over

Angela.

[freakydiver 0]

I imagine most people that died under canopies thought they would be fine.

Just a thought.

-- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

[freakydiver 0]

You want to get the most out of a canopy control class?? Listen better than you have displayed in this thread. These people are just trying to help you out. Its simple - we are all brothers and sisters trying to help one another.

-- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

[dgskydive 0]

Why doesn't everyone stop picking at her? She is obviously going in the right direction. Regardless what size canopy she is jumping. I am as much of a CN if not more then the rest of you. I sell gear and give people the third degree all the time. She asked about how to get the most out of her canopy class! I don;t know Scott but if he is teaching a course then he hopefully knows what he is doing. Let him SEE her land and make a judgement. I know everyone means well but give her a chance. I have seen as many people break stuff and kill themselves under canopy as the rest of you. At least she is going in the right direction. This is why so many people get pissed off in these forums. She did not ask any of you for advice on canopy size. She asked about the class and how she could get everything out of it she could. Do you not think that the instructor will tell her to get a bigger canopy if he thinks that she needs it? Next time she may not be so quick to ask for advice if everyone jumps down her throat. I know that nobody wants to see her get hurt, NEITHER DO I! The one thing that I tell every new jumper when they ask me what size canopy they should jump. I give them my OPINION, then tell them to go and speak to there instructors. They are the only ones that can give the best advice because they see her everytime they jump. None of us have ever seen her land! Let the qualified people who see her all the time give her shit if the canopy is to small. Be supportive for sure! Just don't make this an unpleasant place for her to ask questions.

Dom

[TB99 0]

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Let him SEE her land and make a judgement.

Do you not think that the instructor will tell her to get a bigger canopy if he thinks that she needs it?

None of us have ever seen her land!

Commenting on the first 2 lines I quoted you on ... that's the point some of us were trying to make. Our point is the fact that she flat out said she wasn't going to take Scott's advice even if he DID say she wasn't ready for a 150.

Oh, and some of us commenting HAVE seen her land ... just because she's not local to you, however, doesn't mean you can't comment anyways.

We're all just giving friendly advice here, I'm looking out for her as much as anyone else. I just don't think that's a real good mindset to have at such a young stage in the skydiving career.

Trailer 11/12 was the best. Thanks for the memories ... you guys rocked!

[SkydiveNFlorida 0]

dg, Look, I appreciate what you've tried to point out here, but let's just let this thread die. No one who is responding at this point is responding about the first post.

Regarding my landings, TB, for my amount of jumps, they are good I am told by several instructors. So, please take the hint and leave me alone.

And, you're quite correct, I won't be on here asking for advice about anything, or if I do, i'll be quite sure not to mention canopy size anymore.

Seems to me that a lot of people just can't leave alone about something that is wrung out. Don't know if it is a superiority complex, or what, but seems like people are just waiting for a reply to this thread so they can come back with some smartass you're gonna die comment. Everyone has already heard everything everyone else has to say here. No post is a new one. Read every post, then if you actually have something new to say, go ahead, but I doubt you'll find something considering that the last 20 posts have been, ... "you're an idiot, you're gonna cream in and die, jump a 250sf canopy, etc". Again, i'm not arguing for my point anymore, i'm just pointing out that posting is redundant. I will do what I will do as it is my life, and my decision.

Thanks for not bothering to respond (like I should have done).
Angela.

[TB99 0]

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Regarding my landings, TB, for my amount of jumps, they are good I am told by several instructors. So, please take the hint and leave me alone.

I never once said your landings were "bad" in any way. All I said was I have seen you, when the last person was saying no one has. Sorry you misinterprreted that one. The one and only concern I have isn't even about you normally landing a 150sq ft canopy, I'm sure you'll be fine with that ... I'm only concerned with how well you deal with emergencies. I'm done ...

Trailer 11/12 was the best. Thanks for the memories ... you guys rocked!

[kaerock 1]

Devil's Advocate...
A 1:1 loading is not at all uncommon nor terribly unsafe (relative to the fact that you're flinging yourself at the Earth at break-neck speeds). While I agree that starting off slowly is the best course of action, moving from a .6 load to .8 to 1.0 really isn't that insane, I mean, really. I don't see a problem with it for *HER*. Perhaps if it were someone else, I'd break out a clue-pon.

People learn at different rates. One person I know of has something like 90 jumps and has yet to stand it up consistently(or if they do it's a fluke). Some people land them consistently on their feet from jump 1. If someone feels confident that they can land the canopy, then I'd put money that they would be successful. Having quick reflexes and a good sense of motion and timing are only a part of it, but planning and understanding and fore-thought are another, that usually comes with experience.

So someone with 26 jumps that has a good sense of timing and can consistently land standing up most likely is going to be fine under a 1:1 or 1.1:1 loading. There are people that shouldn't be in this sport...f by jump 90 you still can't stand them up, HINT HINT. Angela isn't one of them. I've seen her landings and she far above bar for someone with as many jumps as she has. Many of her instructors have made similar comments. To blindly state that she's going to screw herself into the ground because she has 26 jumps and wants to jump 1:1 is the same reasoning people burn books.

I think it's admirable that she is so concerned with canopy flight, how to get the most out of it and how to utilize the full set of tools available to her. She's taking the time to ask in order to be better informed, IMAGINE THAT. I want to smack people that refuse to pull a front riser or push their knowledge a little, that's what learning is.

I suggest people be constructive rather than accusatory, antagonizing and argumentative (that's my forte :)). Like, suggest ways to get the most out of a canopy class (a real stretch, I know). Maybe point out some good articles on how canopies work, what happens when you pull a break versus a riser.


Anyhow, blue skies, twinkle-toed landings.
-R

You be the king and I'll overthrow your government. --KRS-ONE

[ianmdrennan 2]

Read it

Blue skies
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[Michele 1]

Hi, Angela

[Quote]
Read every post, then if you actually have something new to say, go ahead,

This was brought up in another thread - I hadn't done my homework well. Glad to see you took the class! How was it? How many jumps did you get in? I hear the weather is so changeable down there this time of year.

Isn't Scott Miller the best? He rocks. I remember when I took my class, I downsized during it at their insistence. I didn't take it with Scott - Jim Slaton and Clint Clawson were my instructors -a s well as Luigi and JC Colclasure - I was so bad they brought everyone out! LOL. Scared me silly, but I was fine. Were you able to make the downsize well under Scott's tutelage? Aren't sight pictures a bear to form and keep consistent in 5 jumps? Accuracy is not an easy thing to get. I'm still struggling with it, but getting better. Took me 10 jumps at my new dz for me to get anything near a sightpicture into my head, let alone accurate.

Have you talked to your S&TA about your canopy choice yet? I read above that you hadn't yet talked (at the time of posting). I guess if Scott ok'd it and so did your S&TA, then we need to all shut up and sit back and watch.

So really, how was the class? I am thinking of taking Scott's stuff when I get back east, because canopy piloting is a wonderful thing, and I figure if I learn from lots of different people, then I can be more well rounded and overall a more safe canopy pilot.

I am interested in your response...I hope you enjoyed your class as much as I did mine!

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[marks 0]

geese....

i just read this entire thred..

cmon.. it is a 1.0:1 wing loading... it is an excellend wing loading for a beginner to learn on....

what is the big deal about a 125 # girl jumping a 150 with 25 jumps or more...

i personnally would be more concerned with her under a 230 than a 150..

angella. you seem to be taking the right course of action. good luck at the class and i hope you learn alot.

dont argue with canopie nazies it will go on forever..
nat saying that im not one also but in my opinion you still on the conservative side.. even more so because your taking the course...

sory i got off subject too..

later

Mark

[SkydiveNFlorida 0]

Michelle, the class was great. Flat turns are invaluable, and I learned a lot. I plan on taking more canopy control courses in the near future as well:)

Marks, yes, I know. I am quite done arguing. have more than doubled my jumps since the time this was first posted, but I'd still rather stay out of canopy arguments as it's just easier that way.

If anyone has any questions about Scott's class i'd be glad to answer. I would recommend his instruction any day. However, i'd like to keep my own personal information off of this site. Please keep any questions specific to instruction.

thx.
Angela.

[skymedic 0]

Well Mark,

smaller canopies simply turn faster...two canopies of different sizes...one a 150 one a 230 both loaded the same will not provide the same ride. they will have the same speed down the glide slope. but smaller canopies turn faster...period. more than one person has been hurt jumping a 150 too early even though they loaded it at around 1.0

just my two cents...

Marc

[marks 0]

umm k


tanks!