Comp Cobalt to be delivered today!!!!

[PhreeZone 20]

Quote

I do feel that it is unfair when I see people bashing Atair over and over again without acknowledging that there are people who feel the same way about other manufacturers.

I think its perfectly fine. I bashed the Sabre2 since the demo I was sent was opening so hard it was hurting. PD took the time to follow up on my return demo card and tested it themselfs. PD then took the effort to inform me the demo jumpers gor slammed under the canopy and they later retired the almost new canopy from their fleet. PD (Kolla) then offered to get me back on the demo list for another Sabre2 if I wanted one.

Atair never followed up on my complaints and it took me calling them a few dozen times to get a story of "wrong sized slider" was the cause of the hard openings on the demo I had. At the time they never even had demo return cards in their demo containers. I've seen Atair ship out a demo canopy (After inspection) with a line so frayed it would have snapped on opening. I've also heard of them shipping out a demo canopy that did'nt have all the lines bartacked and they failed on opening.

I've complained about Icarus never seeming to answer a phone when I was calling or how they responded to the Crossfire collapse.

I've posted about how Sunpath screwed my rig up on a harness resizing and now it can only hold a custom D-ring since they sewed the pocket so small I can't get any other one into it.

I'm generally a bitchy person and if I'm not bitching that means someone went to the extra mile to make me happy.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[andrewstewart 0]

Quote

Quote

I do feel that it is unfair when I see people bashing Atair over and over again without acknowledging that there are people who feel the same way about other manufacturers.

I think its perfectly fine. I bashed the Sabre2 since the demo I was sent was opening so hard it was hurting. PD took the time to follow up on my return demo card and tested it themselfs. PD then took the effort to inform me the demo jumpers gor slammed under the canopy and they later retired the almost new canopy from their fleet. PD (Kolla) then offered to get me back on the demo list for another Sabre2 if I wanted one.

Atair never followed up on my complaints and it took me calling them a few dozen times to get a story of "wrong sized slider" was the cause of the hard openings on the demo I had. At the time they never even had demo return cards in their demo containers. I've seen Atair ship out a demo canopy (After inspection) with a line so frayed it would have snapped on opening. I've also heard of them shipping out a demo canopy that did'nt have all the lines bartacked and they failed on opening.

I've complained about Icarus never seeming to answer a phone when I was calling or how they responded to the Crossfire collapse.

I've posted about how Sunpath screwed my rig up on a harness resizing and now it can only hold a custom D-ring since they sewed the pocket so small I can't get any other one into it.

I'm generally a bitchy person and if I'm not bitching that means someone went to the extra mile to make me happy.

I think this actually reinforces my point that generally, YMMV ("your milage may vary") across ALL the manufacturers.

[voidlizard 0]

Quote

Maybe. However, how many people that jump or have jumped PDs have come out and said the same sort of things about PDs. Now what about PISA canopies, Precision canopies, Icuras canopies, etc.

Really? Well, I have been slammed by Hornet 135, Sabre 150 (it was a very hard impact and absolutelly inconsistent opening - the worse opening I have ever had). and I have several very hard openinigs on Spectre 135, and one on Safire 119. Not a big deal. I am hearing talks about hard openings on the different mains all the time on dz. Almost every weekend we are drinking beer at evening because of someone had cutaway. It's life. But it seems that every mal or hard opening on Cobalt cause a discussion on dropzone.com. I know five or six Cobalt owners on dz, they are happy with the canopies. I am happy with the Cobalt too, although I was having some minor problems until I have not learned how to pack it.

[ramon 0]

I love the 105 I am jumping.

Lots of people reading this thread forget that PD pretended that there were no issues with the sabre. That Precision did recall a bunch of reserves and then say it wasn't a recall and try to charge customers for the mod.
That Icarus released like 12 or more versions of their parachutes during production with varying opening characteristics. And that Icarus canopies made in Spain or New Zealand tend to not have the stitching come un done.

None of these guys are perfect, but they all make good products. Atair included.

All of them have military contracts. ..most of them could not stay in business with out them......

Because this is such a "verbal" sport, and many people are highly opinionated (eventhough they may be totally wrong) you must take evrything for what it is worth (an opinion from someone that probably likes different brands of cars than you ).


Demo demo demo.....

ramon

"Revolution is an abrupt change in the form of misgovernment.", Ambrose Bierce.

[davelepka 4]

After reading the posts from the weekend, it seems to me one of the main points that pro-cobalt jumpers are making is that other manufacturers also have had problems with some canopies. This is absolutley true, but has no bearing on the discussion of weather or not Atair has some troubles with product performance/cust. service.

With regards to your personal demo experience with the Cobalt (yours being shipped on risers), I'm sure that Atair gets it right sometimes. Unfortunately, this thread has revaeled that I'm not the only one who received a demo that was dis-organized, and not inspected. I personally cannot say for sure, but I would be surprised if someone out there got a demo from PD that was not on risers, neatly flaked and packed after inspection, and included packing tips and rubber bands. This does not represent a huge amount of effort, but goes a long way toward satisfying the customer.

I still have not been able to access your full profile, and was wondering if you could include the following with your reply: your jump numbers, home DZ, and current and past canopies and sizes.

[roq 0]

"When you want to know about some gear ask the guys that are putting 1000 or more jumps a year on that little piece of equiptment. "


I don't agree with your opinion.
When you want information about any equipment, ask a experienced and independent jumper, that loves the skydiving and not only the money, that know several types of canopys or equipments and not only one or two, that made several hundreds of jumps with several canopy types and don't be sold " or sponsored for only any maker.
There are some jumpers with thousands of jumps and that never jumped with more than two marks of canopys.
For to give an opinion it is not necessary to say badly of another equipment, it is enough to say well of equipment that we tested if in fact he is good.

Roq

[andrewstewart 0]

Quote

After reading the posts from the weekend, it seems to me one of the main points that pro-cobalt jumpers are making is that other manufacturers also have had problems with some canopies. This is absolutley true, but has no bearing on the discussion of weather or not Atair has some troubles with product performance/cust. service.

With regards to your personal demo experience with the Cobalt (yours being shipped on risers), I'm sure that Atair gets it right sometimes. Unfortunately, this thread has revaeled that I'm not the only one who received a demo that was dis-organized, and not inspected. I personally cannot say for sure, but I would be surprised if someone out there got a demo from PD that was not on risers, neatly flaked and packed after inspection, and included packing tips and rubber bands. This does not represent a huge amount of effort, but goes a long way toward satisfying the customer.

I still have not been able to access your full profile, and was wondering if you could include the following with your reply: your jump numbers, home DZ, and current and past canopies and sizes.

Okay then, let's keep the discussion purely in the domain of customer service...

My personal experience has been that it is *impossible* to get someone from Icarus on the phone. Over the last several months I've called Icarus several times and left several messages and not a single one of those phone calls has been returned. When I phone Atair someone calls me back or they tell me when to phone back. The difference is like night and day! (And several people on these forums have made remarks to a similar effect).

My point is that whatever aspect you wish to discuss - customer service - product quality - product satisfaction - these are all parameters which will vary for each person and as has been proven there are many manufacturers who people are unhappy with for certain reasons. To portray Atair as being the "worst" manufacturer in some way is both a misnomer and disengenuous.

- A

PS: I've had a demo from PD that didn't have packing instructions or rubber bands, nor was it flaked, so there goes you're theory on that one ;-)

[davelepka 4]

Again, your post is focusing on the shortcomings of other companies, which had no bearing on the performance of Atair. I don't believe anyone is saying that PD or Icarus is perfect, but in turn, you DO seem to have a defense for every error Atair has made, and while you have not said it, the implication of perfection is certainly there. (I am constituting denial of any or all problems as a defense).

I am hesitant to accept your experience with PD as being valid because A) your being in the pro-Atair camp, it seems convienient that you happen to be the only person I have heard of who has had such an experience; and more so B) you still have not addressed the issue of sharing the details of your in-accessable full profile with the rest of the class.

[VectorBoy 0]

Quote

"When you want to know about some gear ask the guys that are putting 1000 or more jumps a year on that little piece of equiptment. "


I don't agree with your opinion.
When you want information about any equipment, ask a experienced and independent jumper, that loves the skydiving and not only the money, that know several types of canopys or equipments and not only one or two, that made several hundreds of jumps with several canopy types and don't be sold " or sponsored for only any maker.
There are some jumpers with thousands of jumps and that never jumped with more than two marks of canopys.
For to give an opinion it is not necessary to say badly of another equipment, it is enough to say well of equipment that we tested if in fact he is good.

Roq

Good morning Roq actually you do agree with me!
I asked jumpers that have about 1000 jumps on cobalts, about 5000 jumps total. Own 3 rigs at a busy DZ that film tandems with big video and still cameras and also own velocitys, spectres and sabres.
They can fly anything and do when turning back to back loads. These guys are TMs, AFFis and some base on the side, some swoop every landing. Some take it easy.
None of them are factory pilots! I have never spoken to a Attair factory pilot about whether or not I should buy a cobalt.

[andrewstewart 0]

Quote

Again, your post is focusing on the shortcomings of other companies, which had no bearing on the performance of Atair. I don't believe anyone is saying that PD or Icarus is perfect, but in turn, you DO seem to have a defense for every error Atair has made, and while you have not said it, the implication of perfection is certainly there. (I am constituting denial of any or all problems as a defense).

I am hesitant to accept your experience with PD as being valid because A) your being in the pro-Atair camp, it seems convienient that you happen to be the only person I have heard of who has had such an experience; and more so B) you still have not addressed the issue of sharing the details of your in-accessable full profile with the rest of the class.

I am "focusing" on the shortcomings of other companies because some people have tried to say that because we don't hear about other manufacturers being criticized then that somehow implies that Atair is the only company with which some people have had bad experiences, which is not true. I think that we actually agree on this point, right?

I have never said that I have a defense for every mistake Atair may have made, nor am I denying what other people have said. In fact I have explicitly said: "I can only post MY experiences with Atair" (which were that my demo was shipped promptly, on risers, it flew great, and I found them to be a good company to deal with - unlike some others).

As far as my demo with PD goes, feel free to ask Kolla (who I think does a great job). Personally, the fact that the canopy didn't have instructions or rubber bands means nothing to me - I was just pointing out that you seemed to think that PD always does that. They don't.

And as to my jump numers, how would my number of jumps influence your perception of me? If I said I had 50 jumps would you then say that since I'm so inexperienced my opinion counts for less? Or if I was to say 5000 would your opinion of me suddenly go up? Personally, I don't feel that it's right to judge people that way, but I seem to be in the minority on this forum when it comes to that.

[VectorBoy 0]

Quote

The Crossfire 2 is a significant change, and IMO has reduces performance from the original Crossfire.

reply]

JP can you define how the performance has changed? I believe you have a valid opinion.

• Quote

[kansasskydiver 0]

Hey everyone, I have posted a reply to the forum I started a little over 2 weeks ago. I have kept quiet while jumping the canopy because I wanted to come back to everyone with my FULL experience and not just one or 2 jumps on it. All writen is my opinion and personal experience only. I never intended for this to get so large, but my review is posted under

"Comp Coblat 2 week review"

blue skies everyone

<--- See look, pink dolphins DO exist!

[TALONSKY 0]

I think what some may be forgetting is that a rep for Atair (has in the past) bashed every canopy manufacture out there stating that "Atair was THE only company that made a presicion made product that would it was FAR better than any canopy out there". Now this is just one of many statements made by the rep. I have never seen any other company come into these forums and bash EVERY other manufacture as Atair has. So if they want to state how great they are than they should back it up.
Kirk