Comp Cobalt 2 week review

[kansasskydiver 0]

First off, I never intended for this discussion of the delivery of a demo canopy to get so large, but I thank everyone who posted in the other post about the canopy and their experiences. To be fare, all and everything below is only experience from the previous 2 weekends. The canopy got around 25 jumps on it, 23 of which were mine. There are some good and some bad things, the story does get interesting though, so read along please. Recall though that I am a marketing major and studies show that an unhappy customer will tell on average 7 people about their experience, where as a satisfied customer will only tell on average 1. That is why we are seeing more people complaining about the canopy. Just some background on consumer behavior, to the story from beginning to end of my experience.


I have around 500 jumps now, 320 on a Sabre 170. I consider myself an efficient canopy pilot, but was not getting the performance out of my Sabre that was needed. High riser pressure causing me to initiate my turns lower to the ground than wanted. In consideration of buying a new canopy I started the demo process

First canopy on my list was the Cobalt. From my readings and other jumpers at my dz, I hadn't heard the best things from the canopy. Unpredictable openings, hard openings etc, but on the performance side very good. I came into looking at the demo with an unbiased opinion of the canopy as well due to one death of a dear friend whom deployed unstable on a birdman suit, and a low hook turn of another dear friend, who is still with us thankfully.

I pushed these factors aside and said, "If I'm going to buy a new canopy, I want to jump them all that way I know for sure which one was the right one for me"

The PISA heatwave has so far been the worst of my experience for the records. I had 3 instant openings and one of which I was never able to get the end cells to open. I spent 2 days in bed and a doctor's appointment. So we will classify the Heatwave as hard, and the sabre I currently jump as medium and the Diablo as extremely soft.

I contacted Atair on a Tuesday and asked if there was any possibility I could have a demo for the weekend. They informed me that the lady who handled the demo department was no around, but to fax in my request. I did so and called back on Wednesday.

I spoke with Atair about the canopy and yes I admit I was somewhat concerned of what I was getting in to. They informed me that the cobalt 170 had the H mod on it, much like the comp cobalt. On their website it states that the comp cobalt is for expert pilots only. By that wording I do not consider myself. I was given a call back from Atair and spoke with an expert and they addressed my concerns. Informed me that the canopy flew big and that I would have no problem under a 170. We spoke some more and determined that a 150 might actually be my best bet. We decided on the 150, but it was no available so the 170 was sent.

I called Atair back on Thursday and was given a tracking number, canopy to be delivered on Friday, just as I asked. Took off work early to pick it up. First thing I noticed was, printed on the box, "we recommend a 24" pilot chute, we supply these kinds, etc" there was no pilot chute in the box. Concerned, I measured mine, 27"

The canopy did come on risers, RSL on each side, not twisted and hooked up great. Packed it up, actually twice before I put it in the bag, and got ready for Saturday.

Last Saturday rolls around and I make my first jump on it. I wanted to be sure I jumped it before I did my videos that day (top mount TRV and still) 10k and dumped at 7k. The canopy slammed me. Comparing to the above canopies I mentioned. It was harder than the sabre, but not as hard as the heatwave. There was no 2 stage deployment to it, instant canopy and the slider stowed itself.

Concerned with this matter, I borrowed a friend's rig with a sabre 170 in it, strapped on my camera helmet and did my first video of the day. I didn't trust the cobalt enough yet to put the camera on. My friend jumped the cobalt.

We both landed, he said it was the most amazing opening he's had, almost cut away cause it was so soft. We switched back. I packed the canopy a bit different, more careful, went back up, deployed in a track (101mph protrack) felt my back crunch. Closer to the heatwave, but still not as hard.

Made a couple more jumps on it Saturday as I got the packing down. Still did not experience the 2 stage opening. My buddy whom jumped it and had a nice opening said I was being a pussy and I let him jump it again… he came down, bug eyes and with riser slap that left a mark on his z1. he looked at me and said I wasn't being a wimp and just shook his head.

Sunday I believe was the first 2 stage opening I had. Threw out and kinda felt something maybe was there, then WHAM the outer 6 cells opened. End cell closure, easily fixed though. Only made one other jump Sunday due to 30mph winds…

The canopy does fly big as stated. Going back to my first jump on it, I was sure if I was going to make it back into the wind, seemed like I was going backwards, I leaned forward in my harness and gained some. It does fly rather large and glides a lot. Sluggish turns, unless you pull all the way down. I believe this is because of the length of the steering lines. Riser pressure amazing, dives like a banchi, able to hold a 540 carve from 1000 ft no problem. Bottom end flare incredible, I pulled my butt off the ground and back up 5 ft into the air. No complaints on the swoop department or carve and stability.

Cross country/crew. Great canopy. 50knotts up top, took it out about 7 miles, dumped at 10k. sub terminal opening, 3 center cells snivel snivel snivel the WHAM outer 6. stowed everything, opened chest strap, started to really play around with rear risers (important later on in story as you'll see) did some crew with a stiletto 120 loaded at around 1.7-1.8. great glide, lift, stable, no concerns what so ever. Back over dz at 5k and played around.

While landing we caught a gust of wind or updraft. The canopy held it's composure and flew thru it well. Did not collapse nor did it have a lack of flare

Next Saturday. Student day, mostly hop n pop's. tried to get packing down, stuff nose, roll tail TIGHT, track track track wham, same thing. Made another jump, much softer and nicer, still not what was expecting, but in comparison, acceptable. Got one head down from 6k, higher speed deployment slower track, same thing. By mid Saturday I felt like a rag doll on opening because I was doing the whole "relaxed deployment" head facing down, arms to side, not looking up, just taking what I got. I have a mark on my throat from hitting my chest strap so many times.

The opening did get better over the day and I just didn't "care" anymore, or I got used to them lol

Sunday is the important day now. Got a nicer opening from 10k with a student, deployed at 3.5 and it was a lot softer, I had rolled the nose 3 time and then stuffed it. Yet same thing though, once the 3 center cells got air and pushed the slider down, it was done. Slider half stowed itself.

2nd or 3rd jump of Sunday, rolled the nose 7 times (11 on sabre) and pushed it back. Went to 10k again, student dumped at 4 and me at 3.5 wham… same thing. I didn't look up though thru the deployment. The slider had come half way down the brakes. I stowed the slider, opened my chest strap, looked around in the air and pulled down the rear riser to have some fun. Did a 360 leveled out, grabbed the toggles and unstowed them. Immediate diving spin to the left. GRAB BOTH TOGGLES PULL THEM DOWN TO UNSTOW BRAKES!!! Even worse, spun me up one twist. Ah fuck pulled again, same thing. Shit 2k, cutaway cutaway cutaway!!!

This is where the student training and me being an instructor came in "is it there? Is it square? Is it steer able?" well, now 1800 over a field, spinning main… grabbed the right righter and got it to fly straight again. Evaluated the problem.

With the design of the toggles, there is a notch where the break line goes thru, not the typical grommet type. The eyelet in the steering line had gotten on the under side of this notch, either packing or on deployment and the slider smacking it and it was impossible to get it off with the pressure on the line. So my left break was stowed and every movement I made with it was that much more than the right. 1500 or so, I wrap the right toggle around my hand to counter steer and left the left toggle put. Use the rear risers to control the canopy. Lines on right cutting into my hand, I'm freaking out, don't want to land it anymore, it's turning to fast, I'm too close to the ground to cut away, left side of canopy isn't flying as I had thought compared to the right because I'm set in brakes and trying to turn low into the wind. Get myself cross wind over the dz grab the rear risers, feet and knees together, 10 ft and give it what it's worth. Slowed the canopy down as I leveled out onto my side and slide the rest of the way in. walked back to the hanger bug eyed and pissed. Everyone said, geez that was a hard opening are you done with it, I explained the situation and that I had doubts about landing it, but was fine. In retrospect, I probably shoulda cut away, but from the cross country, I was somewhat familiar with the canopy and what it could do rear riser wise.

Landed, packed back up and made 3 more jumps all from 3.5 same thing though from them each time, ever rolling the nose. It's when the 3 center cells expand and it throws the slider down that is causing the issues.

In my honest opinion, the Cobalt is a swoop machine. I got the longest swoop I have ever had, about 40yards from a 360 carve from 800ft. In every way shape and form the canopy performs as it should. The sluggish turns were probably due to the slack in the E lines. It landed me under a partial malfunction with sufficient flare power to not hammer me in. little riser pressure.

Performance aspect I'll give it an 8

Openings were marginal 5 . Nothing that has kept me in bed today or last weekend. Just very snappy after the 3 center cells. A bit sore, but nothing that stopped me from taking the beating. I wanted to make sure I got the most out of the canopy and didn't give up on it.

I would still trust my sabre over the cobalt though to do video.

Overal performance of the canopy I'd say is a 6.5 The openings just weren't what I had in mind. I was told the canopy was going to be a dream compared to the sabre, and yes that was true, I'm sad to send it back because of the swoops, but won't miss the openings.

Customer service 9 was prompt and easy to talk to on phone

Again, this was only my experience and my opinion. I am by far not an expert and nothing I said should be written in stone. Hope this helps

Blue skies,

Chris

<--- See look, pink dolphins DO exist!

[ypelchat 0]

Thaks for posting this review.



Yves.

[andrewstewart 0]

Interesting!

I had a few 'brisk' openings on my Cobalt in the first 10 jumps or so but then it settled down and has never opened hard since. I wonder if this phenomenon of hard openings the first few times a canopy is jumped occurs in other new canopies and could possibly be due simply to a new canopy "settling in" (for want of a better term).

Personally, the hardest skydiving opening I've ever had was on a PD Silhouette. (The hardest parachute opening I've had was from a two second delay, slider off, with a FOX VTEC).

With my Cobalt, I pack it very neatly and do nothing with the nose except make sure it's handing straight and neat. I quarter the slider and expose the nose of the slider a couple of inches, then just put 4 or 5 rolls in the tail. If I roll the tail any more than that it snivels forever (and I've jumped a Spectre a lot so I know about snivels ;-)

- Andrew

[kansasskydiver 0]

I rolled the nose 7 times and tail maybe 12.

It's not a new canopy, it was a demo, packed somwhat easy for a new canopy

<--- See look, pink dolphins DO exist!

[andrewstewart 0]

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It's not a new canopy, it was a demo, packed somwhat easy for a new canopy

Oops, my mistake.

[VectorBoy 0]

I wonder if this same canopy was the one that slammed Aggie Dave? It would be a shame to have a demo out there that isn't representing of production units.

Rolling the nose isn't recomened on the cobalt BTW. Although that didn't cause your hard openings, it would just be more prone to off heading openings.

[kansasskydiver 0]

yes i know i wasn't "suposed" to roll the nose... but i was trying to see if anything was going to get it to open better.

not sure if aggie got the same one... i'll pm him and ask

<--- See look, pink dolphins DO exist!

[AggieDave 6]

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Remember that most of the real nasty stuff last time(the camera bashing etc.) turned out to be aggies.

No, I don't believe so, the one I jumped was a 170, no H-mod. It was white with blue diamonds (if I remember correctly, I'll have to go to the DZ and flip through some of QueenB's pictures from when I had the demo.


Ok, a question for the rigger-types out there...I thought H-mods, as a side effect, slowed openings down?

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[kansasskydiver 0]

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***
Ok, a question for the rigger-types out there...I thought H-mods, as a side effect, slowed openings down?

that's what atair told me too.

<--- See look, pink dolphins DO exist!

[VectorBoy 0]

Ok, a question for the rigger-types out there...I thought H-mods, as a side effect, slowed openings down?

[AggieDave 6]

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yes they are supposed to as well as brace or stiffen the nose openings. The traingle patches in the inlets decreases the opening size somewhat like the x-fires smaller inlets. Net result is stiffer leading edge, softer openings, bigger dives.

(my question was more of a retorical question, I know the H-mod does that, I was proving a point

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[diablopilot 2]

Can I ask what your exit weight is?

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Informed me that the canopy flew big

Could they define what this means?

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We spoke some more and determined that a 150 might actually be my best bet.

And why did they, and you think so?

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[andrewstewart 0]

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We spoke some more and determined that a 150 might actually be my best bet.

And why did they, and you think so?

Well, it depends on your goals. As long as they are stated and known then that's fine, IMHO.

[bobsled92 0]

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yes i know i wasn't "suposed" to roll the nose... but i was trying to see if anything was going to get it to open better.

not sure if aggie got the same one... i'll pm him and ask

Was it white with black Double Diamonds and Blue ribs?
If so, that's no Comp but, it is the one that I got 50/50 on the openings and a great time at 12 & 0 mph ground winds.
The simpler I packed-the better it opened.
And that's why I got the COmp(Still waiting).---ALL mods included, no after market hackin' & stichin'

_______________________________
If I could be a Super Hero,
I chose to be: "GRANT-A-CLAUS". and work 365 days a Year.
http://www.hangout.no/speednews/

[pliz 0]

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yes i know i wasn't "suposed" to roll the nose... but i was trying to see if anything was going to get it to open better.

As it worked for me too, putting the nose too far away will get some off-heading or hard openings. The idea of the 2-stage opening is that the 3 center cells will inflate under slider, slowing freefall down. Then, at the already lowered speed the outer 4 cells will be inflated. If you try to put the nose too far inside the packjob you can get too much air NOT into the nose, but into the tail and into (or under) uninflated outer cells, causing 1-stage opening without pre-slowing freefall speed down. It will be really hard... trust me... The same thing may (and will) happens, when you try to grab the risers.
Tail rolling is important for first stage of opening, more and much tight rolling will make snivel longer.
I've got one of my most hard openings when i touched the riser with camera box mounted on left side of helmet.
A'm happy with CC105 (about 300 jumps @ 1,75) now i'm waiting to get a new CC95 just in a few weeks.

[andrewstewart 0]

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yes i know i wasn't "suposed" to roll the nose... but i was trying to see if anything was going to get it to open better.

As it worked for me too, putting the nose too far away will get some off-heading or hard openings. The idea of the 2-stage opening is that the 3 center cells will inflate under slider, slowing freefall down. Then, at the already lowered speed the outer 4 cells will be inflated. If you try to put the nose too far inside the packjob you can get too much air NOT into the nose, but into the tail and into (or under) uninflated outer cells, causing 1-stage opening without pre-slowing freefall speed down. It will be really hard... trust me... The same thing may (and will) happens, when you try to grab the risers.
Tail rolling is important for first stage of opening, more and much tight rolling will make snivel longer.
I've got one of my most hard openings when i touched the riser with camera box mounted on left side of helmet.
A'm happy with CC105 (about 300 jumps @ 1,75) now i'm waiting to get a new CC95 just in a few weeks.

This makes perfect sense to me and it explains why I get nice openings from just leaving the nose hanging there and doing nothing with it.

[SkymonkeyONE 4]

I am pretty sure most people here know that I used to be an Atair guy. I had consistently great openings with every one of my own mains and my two competition mains, pretty much trash packing all the time. That said, I did have the opportunity to evaluate some incredibly hard opening stock cobalts in sizes 105 and 170. Generally, just leaving the nose out on these "problem" canopies helped, but there were instances where even my standard pack would rattle my teeth. In each and every one of these cases it's my opinion that an H-mod was the best cure. That and maybe a bigger slider. I cannot say that the problem is systemic because I checked the trim and stitching on each of those smackers and found no problem. As has been previously stated in this thread: every single manufacturer has problems with a few of their canopies per year. When those rare problems DO occur, it's up to the manufacturer to deal with them in both a truthful, analytical and expeditious manner less they reap the wrath of their consumer base and it's, sometimes, mob mentality. Some manufacturers are better equipped to deal with such occurences and keep their good name. Others simply fold and/or reorganize when the pressure proves too much. Many parachute manufacturers simply keep their focus on the much-more lucrative and far-less hassle military market. Make no mistake: sport parachute sales are a gnat's ass of the total parachute market.

Back to the packing: I firmly believe that stuffing the nose back on a Cobalt is a bad idea that can only negate the "two-staged opening". For that matter, I believe that stuffing the nose on any parachute is a bad idea. Just my opinion, but I have brilliant openings on every canopy I own and have owned since my old monarch.

Chuck Blue
D-12501

[Snowflake 0]

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Could they define what this means?

Since a bunch of us were just talking about this last weekend I'll give it a try.

I fly a Cobalt 150 I rented a rig with a Sabre2 150 which I jumped a couple of times and I was kinda pissed that the Sabre2 was noticably faster and needed less toggle input(not much but it was less). Also one of the jumpers at my DZ went from a Sabre2 120 to a Cobalt 105 and she says they fly about the same. I didn't riser carve on the Sabre2 but flying straight in it is more like a Cobalt 135.

IMO the Cobalt flies one size bigger then most comparable 9 cell semi or fully elliptical canopies of the same size(note this is just an opinion based on the feedback of the 6-10 jumpers who have Cobalts at my DZ and is in no way scientific)

[andrewstewart 0]

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Could they define what this means?

Since a bunch of us were just talking about this last weekend I'll give it a try.

I fly a Cobalt 150 I rented a rig with a Sabre2 150 which I jumped a couple of times and I was kinda pissed that the Sabre2 was noticably faster and needed less toggle input(not much but it was less). Also one of the jumpers at my DZ went from a Sabre2 120 to a Cobalt 105 and she says they fly about the same. I didn't riser carve on the Sabre2 but flying straight in it is more like a Cobalt 135.

IMO the Cobalt flies one size bigger then most comparable 9 cell semi or fully elliptical canopies of the same size(note this is just an opinion based on the feedback of the 6-10 jumpers who have Cobalts at my DZ and is in no way scientific)

Does this mean that, essentially, the Cobalt is a more "efficient" wing? I am hesitant to use the word efficient, but that seems to be what you are suggesting (?).

Personally, one of the things I love about my Cobalt is the range - it can float really well but it can also dive like crazy (when I want it to ;-)

[andy2 0]

chuck, on the hard opening cobalts did you notice any other difference with the inflight performance while flying these canopies? Or were the canopies indentical except for the opening stages?

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let my inspiration flow,
in token rhyme suggesting rhythm...

[SkymonkeyONE 4]

No, they all flew like they were supposed to, which is to say great. I could never figure out a reason for the opening disparity. On a related note, our demo team, and those of the Golden Knights, had very similar problems with a batch of our StarTrac mains. The older ones we had, which it is said were cut from the same CAD templates opened like a dream. Unfortunately, our entire new batch, plus those of the GK's, "came off our backs open." Why? Who knows. Not us nor the manufacturer. They flew the same but the openings destroyed not less than six sliders and three mains. on our team. The fix: a simple nose mod on the center three cells. Was this a "patch?" Certainly, but it worked flawlessly and we accepted that as a solution. A similar patch for hard opening Cobalts is the H-mod. A further patch for still-hard-opening Cobalts is more of a nose mod, just like the one on CC's and FireBolts.

[andy2 0]

i am understanding it right that this "patch" is more of a win-win situation as the overall rigidity of the canopy is increased adding performance to the swoop?

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let my inspiration flow,
in token rhyme suggesting rhythm...

[SkymonkeyONE 4]

Correct, but it's at your own cost.

[kansasskydiver 0]

The cobalt I was jumping this weekend did have the H mod, which Atair said made it like the Competition Cobalt, just that it was an after production modification.

I'll have a Crossfire2 for 2 weekends this week

<--- See look, pink dolphins DO exist!

[roq 0]

That I know about my experience with cobalts and Impulse canopys is the following:
-The most important for to have a soft opening is the placement of the slider quartered and 3 " out of the nose of the cell of the center.
-For to have symmetrical opening is better to stay to open the nose of the center cell and to rotate the four outside cells 1/2 turn for inside (not for inside the center cell).
-No to push the nose all inside of the pack job. It should be pushed the nose lightly inside, only for adjust and to stay centered the nose but not put the nose inside of the pack job.
-To -rotate the tail just not more 4ou 5 turns.
-To -place everything very symmetrical inside of the bag

-With this process I never had an opening hard!!!
-And with it pack job I need to put a small slider in my canopys with nose H-Mod type (roq-mod) for to had normal openings and not super slow openings!!!

Roq