georgechurchill 0 #1 October 12, 2003 When and how should people learn to use rear riser landings or should they even bother. What Canopy should you practise on?? Here are my views. 1) When you can consistently land every time, without any toggle input, except for the last flair. 2) When starting, you should aim to plane out 50ft above the deck then lower it. This can cause your canopy then to go back into a dive but I found it no bother to then plane out again. 3) The canopy you fly should be responsive enough to land on rears. Velocities seem to respond better on the rear risers than on toggles. Any one else found this. Trying to land a Sabre on Rears can be dangerous as the canopy really only trims out a bit. Can't comment on other canopies, as I have never attempted these landings on them. Interested to see what others think Georgehttp://georgechurchill.blogspot.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bobsled92 0 #2 October 12, 2003 I've only done it 2 times because of steering lines breaking. ===as last choice opposed to "break-a-way" (I'm pending C-Lic.)_______________________________ If I could be a Super Hero, I chose to be: "GRANT-A-CLAUS". and work 365 days a Year. http://www.hangout.no/speednews/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #3 October 12, 2003 I'll agree with 1, and 2, but there is no reason you can't do it on a Sabre or canopy in it's class. In fact it's brobably smarter to try it out on a larger canopy first. A Sabre at 1:1 will be less responsive but it is still do-able. A Sabre at 1.8 will work just as well if you do it right.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MrHixxx 0 #4 October 12, 2003 Practice trimming the canopy out above 2000 ft. to find the stall point in rear risers. A high speed stall down low under a highly loaded canopy might be your last landing. Hixxxdeath,as men call him, ends what they call men -but beauty is more now than dying’s when Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #5 October 13, 2003 I rear riser my Sabre 1 135 and it planes out like a champ before I even need toggle input. It can be done if the pilot is up to speed."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ThomasHughes 0 #6 October 13, 2003 Carefull George!!! you are a father now! Thomas XL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georgechurchill 0 #7 October 13, 2003 Hasn't tamed me a bit....still completely out of Control in the air and on the ground PS. Just sent you a Private messagehttp://georgechurchill.blogspot.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crawford 0 #8 October 14, 2003 Does anyone have any experience "rear Riser-ing" a Stiletto at 2.1 to 1? Anything I should know? I would like to venture into the rear riser status but can't seem to find my nuts when I am coming out of the hook to try it!!! Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. Steve "Sure, those Golf Carts may look all warm and fuzzy, but they WILL take a chunk out of your ass!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
twnsnd 1 #9 October 14, 2003 A stiletto loaded at @ 2.1 has already lost quite a bit of efficiency. I would probably not mess with rears on that canopy at that loading. -We are the Swoophaters. We have travelled back in time to hate on your swoops.- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #10 October 14, 2003 It's easy. Of course try a couple up top, and rear-riser stall it a few times to see where that is, and what it's like. After your turn, during the dive, put your hands as high as you can on the back risers, and keep them there. Just do what comes naturally to avoid hitting the ground. You can either do the whole thing on the risers, or drop them at the last mintue and shut it down with toggles. If your turn gets botched, and you have to do any kind of digging, I would say abort the rear risers thing and do it with toggles. If you can't seem to locate your nuts, you may want to check under your legstrap (unless you have a wife or girlfriend, in which case I would guess that they are holding on to them for you). Good luck. Edit: I read the post just before mine, and I have 2500+ jumps on a Stiletto at 2 to 1. I have no problems with efficiency of any kind, and always make it home from a long spot, and get great swoops with toggles or risers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 4 #11 October 14, 2003 Do "more than a couple" up top. Just like learning any other new turn, I always recommend dumping high enough to get several practices at known altitudes to get a good average on how high you need to throw your turn. In the case of transitioning to rears, those high practices will give you the confidence you need to commit to it on your "real" turn. Rear riser landings are not to be taken lightly. High speed stalls are quite common and I can't say that I know a single person who does them who has not eaten it spectacularly because of a botched transition or pulling too far. Not a single person. That said, once proficient at the transition and familiar with your canopy's rear riser stall point, the act of landing your canopy in that manner becomes as simple as "normal" landings. I know quite a few people who jump Stillettos and land them to complete stops solely on rears. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
andy2 0 #12 October 14, 2003 question: "dropping" your rears to go for your toggles to shut it down would make it surge foward though? I take it youre talking about slowly releasing your risers and then giving a normal finishing toggle flare to shut it down? Just trying to understand what that means... --------------------------------------------- let my inspiration flow, in token rhyme suggesting rhythm... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 4 #13 October 14, 2003 Negative. The great majority of people who rear riser their landings pull outward and/or slightly to the rear, they do not pull straight down on them. Transitioning from rears to toggles using the outward-pulling technique is almost seamless because the slack in your brake lines is taken up automatically by the guide rings when you release the rears. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mad47 0 #14 October 16, 2003 Thanks for the great tip. I have learned something new today Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aerialcameraman 0 #15 October 16, 2003 I due 270's and use my rear risers on my stilleto and it swoops just as far as some of the others out there. Remember that the first canopy to start winning meets and first elliptical was the stilletp.[ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jeiber 0 #16 October 17, 2003 I've got a Sabre2 loaded at 1.45. Do your comments apply to the Sabre2 as well? Any other comments on swooping with the above canopy? My straight on front riser dives have gone very well, so i'm moving on to 90 degree front riser turns next, as well as getting on my rear risers for a little extra distance. Suggestions? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #17 October 17, 2003 Sabre2's and almost every canopy out there lands just fine on rear risers.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks 0 #18 October 17, 2003 QuoteI've got a Sabre2 loaded at 1.45. Do your comments apply to the Sabre2 as well? Any other comments on swooping with the above canopy? My straight on front riser dives have gone very well, so i'm moving on to 90 degree front riser turns next, as well as getting on my rear risers for a little extra distance. Suggestions? suggest you work on either rear riser first or the 90 first... i suggest you learn th 90 first... dont try to learn both at the same time... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
andy2 0 #19 October 17, 2003 learn 90 first then rears? Wouldn't it be a lot easier to work on rears BEFORE you start doing 90 degree riser turns? Learn them while youre doing double fronts and are at a lower speed so it will be easier to apply to the higher speeds of 90 degree dives? (This is NOT rhetorical, an honest question, sorry if its phrased weird ). --------------------------------------------- let my inspiration flow, in token rhyme suggesting rhythm... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks 0 #20 October 17, 2003 just dont try to learn both at the same time... that is the point im trying to get across Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
andy2 0 #21 October 17, 2003 definitely, i think that applies to anything in skydiving. One thing at a time is the safest! Thanks! --------------------------------------------- let my inspiration flow, in token rhyme suggesting rhythm... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
andrewstewart 0 #22 October 17, 2003 QuoteWhen and how should people learn to use rear riser landings or should they even bother. What Canopy should you practise on?? Here are my views. 1) When you can consistently land every time, without any toggle input, except for the last flair. 2) When starting, you should aim to plane out 50ft above the deck then lower it. This can cause your canopy then to go back into a dive but I found it no bother to then plane out again. 3) The canopy you fly should be responsive enough to land on rears. Velocities seem to respond better on the rear risers than on toggles. Any one else found this. Trying to land a Sabre on Rears can be dangerous as the canopy really only trims out a bit. Can't comment on other canopies, as I have never attempted these landings on them. Interested to see what others think George I have had a very, very experienced canopy pilot (who is on both pro tours) express the opinion to me that no-one should try rear riser landings unless they've got 1000 jumps. He just doesn't think it's worth it regards the benefit to performance vs. the possibility of hurting yourself. Just my... er, his 2 cents. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
andy2 0 #23 October 17, 2003 I had to do a rear riser landing when I had 22 jumps and my toggle knotted around itself. I'm glad I had practiced before that! --------------------------------------------- let my inspiration flow, in token rhyme suggesting rhythm... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdhill 0 #24 October 17, 2003 There is a difference between learning rear riser landings, and learning high performance rear riser landings. Everyone should lear to use their rears in the event of an emergency... only experianced pilots should explore HP rear riser landings, and they should approach them with great caution. JAll that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
andrewstewart 0 #25 October 17, 2003 QuoteThere is a difference between learning rear riser landings, and learning high performance rear riser landings. Everyone should lear to use their rears in the event of an emergency... only experianced pilots should explore HP rear riser landings, and they should approach them with great caution. J I intended that to be implicit in my post, but it's worth restating - thanks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
