jcoller 0 #1 October 23, 2003 Looking to get another rig and wanted advice on my next main. My experience level: I have slightly over a hundred jumps on a Sabre II 150 (loaded at 1.33) with a total of 540 jumps. I love the Sabre II, but don't really want to have two of the same thing. I was thinking of getting something peppier, but not TOO much more aggressive for my experience level. I waited until I had about 450 jumps before even attempting front riser turns. I like to carve it for fast swoopy landings as opposed to those hook turn things which keep killing people. I can usually get a nice surf with not too much runout, but I most admire the guys who seem to be able to make the chute glide about two feet over the ground at about 5mph for 50 feet or more. I feel like I am going like a freight train in comparison. My thoughts were the Crossfire2, the Vengeance, Cobalt or Nitron at 150 sq ft (149 in the Crossfire2 case). Since I am a Hawaii jumper (windy and bumpy), the Vengeance (airlocks) appeals but I haven't actually heard much about them except for PDs marketing. The Cobalt looks cool and supposedly lands great, but everyone I know who has one (three at my DZ) complain about getting slammed. Never even seen a Nitron except in pictures. Will I get laughed off the dropzone with a parachute that has little sausages on top? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydivingdutch 0 #2 October 23, 2003 My DZO has a Nitron, and frankly, haventeven noticed them, not even when I pack it. Its an 88 sqft (or thereabouts), so a tad smaller than what you are looking for, but he loves it, opens nice all the time, packs easily etc. http://dropman.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trigger 0 #3 October 23, 2003 Do you want to go fully elliptical.i.e longer dives,faster turns etc or do you want to go faster where a downsize same parachute say sabreII 135 may suffice or similar size Saffire,Pilot etc[downsizing increases turnrate,length/speed of dive also] If you want to learn to swoop or improve your techniques i'd advice you to stay with the same planform[at v least] Note:Always Demo+talk to your mentors about your choices.CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
b1jercat 0 #4 October 23, 2003 I jump at a swoop DZ, most guys go for the vengence. I have no clue what would be right for you. blues jerry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #5 October 23, 2003 The Vengence is really one sweet canopy. I'm not sure how I would have done on it if I hadn't jumped an elliptical for about 400 jumps before I jumped it, though. If it opens off heading (happens), it likes to turn and dive pretty quickly, yeah a Sabre2 can do that, but its nothing compared to what the Vengence will do. Well, every elliptical I've jumped will turn and dive to a degree if it opens off heading, but the Vengence does it worst then a Stilletto, Xfire2 and a Cobalt. It does feel rock freak'n solid in bumpy conditions, though, and it'll swoop forever. Its amazing how slow you can be going at the end of your swoop and the Vengence will just keep going. Xfire2 is one seriously sweeeeeeeet canopy. I'm demoing one right now (a 149, actually, but my WL is a bit higher then yours) and I can't get enough of it. It is definately much faster then a Sabre2 and it is most definately much higher performance then a Sabre2. Are you looking to have more speed for your swoops or have then faster turns of an elliptical? I've jumped Sabre2s at wingloadings varying from about 1.35 to almost 1.7, even at 1.4/1.5 range, when you get your approach right, they freak'n swoop and swoop hard. With all of that said, I really don't have much more experience then you do, so what I would say is to demo demo demo. Find what you like. Talk to the guys/gals on your DZ that you know are good canopy pilots and see what they say. Good luck, have fun!--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcoller 0 #6 October 23, 2003 Looking to go full elliptical, that is why I figured I would stay the same size vs downsize on the Sabre II. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trigger 0 #7 October 23, 2003 Ultimately the choice is yours!My vote goes with the Crossfire2,but do speak to your mentors and definately demo.CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
superstu 0 #8 October 23, 2003 look at what others are flying around your dz. ask people that have seen you land. research on the internet. demo. buy. also take into account that winter is coming up so maybe you're not jumping as much. i went from a tri 160 to stiletto 150 to now a impulse 120 and love the impulse. probibly stick with that for 400-600 jumps.Slip Stream Air Sports Do not go softly, do not go quietly, never back down Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AntiPinkChrissy 0 #9 October 23, 2003 Quote Since I am a Hawaii jumper (windy and bumpy), the Vengeance (airlocks) appeals but I haven't actually heard much about them except for PDs marketing.hree at my DZ)Quote the Samurai by Big Air Sportz is also an airlocked eliptical canopy. I jump one and I find it very stable in turbulent air, has sweet opening, flies great and just an all around great canopy. I don't swoop so I can't really comment on that, maybe some others can chirp in about that. ~La La Gang Member #2~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites johnny1488 1 #10 October 24, 2003 The xfire2 comes with a good chunck of responsibility (as do all hp canopies, hell even any conopies, but I'll save that for a yelling thread) but it is one awesome canopy. Give that a shot as well as anything else you think you might like. I look forward to jumping other stuff to see how they try to compare to my xfire. I doubt I will find anything that can. Johnny --"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!" Mike Rome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ManBird 0 #11 October 24, 2003 I'm moving to a Crossfire 2 after my Sabre 2, but that's still a few hundred jumps out (as I'd prefer to load one if I buy one). The CF2 will still kick ass loaded at ~1.3. I borrowed one for awhile at that loading. Even though I fly higher loadings than that, I was getting better swoops and flights in general from the CF2 130 loaded at 1.3 after about fifteen jumps than I was on my Sabre 120 loaded at 1.5 after 400 jumps. Highly recommended. You're also being smart to move over in shape, and not size. When I switch to my CF2 in a few hundred jumps, I'll be doing the same thing."¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjuggler 0 #12 October 24, 2003 Samurai's are also a great canopy. I would look at a XF2, Vengance, Stilleto, Katana and a Samurai. The Nitro / Nitron turns fast and dives hard but doesn't seem to swoop very fast, just my opinion. Also I wouldn't worry about the sausages on the top, just the rediculously short lines that make it look like a kite. This might work if you live in Hawai, you could double up for kite surfing!!! As others have said, demo as many as possible. I guess we are all biased towards our own gear, but I am very happy with the samurai, it is a beautifully created canopy and is made at PD, so you get all their build quality. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites goose491 0 #13 October 30, 2003 QuoteQuote Since I am a Hawaii jumper (windy and bumpy), the Vengeance (airlocks) appeals but I haven't actually heard much about them except for PDs marketing.hree at my DZ)Quote the Samurai by Big Air Sportz is also an airlocked eliptical canopy. I jump one and I find it very stable in turbulent air, has sweet opening, flies great and just an all around great canopy. I don't swoop so I can't really comment on that, maybe some others can chirp in about that. Here here! The Samurai Rocks! Vengeance is a great Canopy, it's basically a second geration Jedei (Brian Germain), the Samurai is like third generation... the three canopies are very similar and very very cool. Check out Big Air sports for further info on the airlocks... they are Germains design. My Karma ran over my Dogma!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhreeZone 20 #14 October 30, 2003 QuoteVengeance is a great Canopy, it's basically a second geration Jedei (Brian Germain), the Samurai is like third generation... the three canopies are very similar and very very cool. Check out Big Air sports for further info on the airlocks... they are Germains design. The Vengence is an all original PD design. Brian licensed them the Airlock to build into a canopy that they would design and the Vengence is the result. The Samurai is based off the concepts learned in the Jedei Sweptwing. The Jedei went through many changes and alterations while in production. Have you seen a canopy with inner and outer stabilizers before? I've jumped a Jedei like that. Brian tweeked the sweptwing and made the changes the Jedei jumpers asked for to create the Samurai Brian has even had a few designs for the Airlock itself. The PCS Airlock and the original design are slightly different designs.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites flyhi 24 #15 October 30, 2003 John, I jumped my Vengeance out there in June (Where were you, bruddah?) and it was very stable. Didn't land in the slot and still did just fine. Definitely a good ride. I'm loading it at about 1.6:1.0 and it was sweet. It's a lot of fun on no wind days, too, not that you ever get those out there. If I move back, I would think about getting something smaller, though. When you know you are going to face 15 - 20 mph winds 80% of the time, you want to be prepared for it. Right now, plans are to come back in March. Hope to see you then. round, meeker, donut, bipole, hollywoodShit happens. And it usually happens because of physics. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcoller 0 #16 November 11, 2003 Hey Bob! I got the e-mail about your visit but, I was out doing a sailboat race that weekend. I didn't know you had a Vengeance, you were still jumping a Stilleto the last time we jumped together! Where do you jump most these days? I've been to Palatka and Deland and it seemed Palatka was pretty quiet in comparison. Your flamboyant style requires a BIG DZ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
johnny1488 1 #10 October 24, 2003 The xfire2 comes with a good chunck of responsibility (as do all hp canopies, hell even any conopies, but I'll save that for a yelling thread) but it is one awesome canopy. Give that a shot as well as anything else you think you might like. I look forward to jumping other stuff to see how they try to compare to my xfire. I doubt I will find anything that can. Johnny --"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!" Mike Rome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ManBird 0 #11 October 24, 2003 I'm moving to a Crossfire 2 after my Sabre 2, but that's still a few hundred jumps out (as I'd prefer to load one if I buy one). The CF2 will still kick ass loaded at ~1.3. I borrowed one for awhile at that loading. Even though I fly higher loadings than that, I was getting better swoops and flights in general from the CF2 130 loaded at 1.3 after about fifteen jumps than I was on my Sabre 120 loaded at 1.5 after 400 jumps. Highly recommended. You're also being smart to move over in shape, and not size. When I switch to my CF2 in a few hundred jumps, I'll be doing the same thing."¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjuggler 0 #12 October 24, 2003 Samurai's are also a great canopy. I would look at a XF2, Vengance, Stilleto, Katana and a Samurai. The Nitro / Nitron turns fast and dives hard but doesn't seem to swoop very fast, just my opinion. Also I wouldn't worry about the sausages on the top, just the rediculously short lines that make it look like a kite. This might work if you live in Hawai, you could double up for kite surfing!!! As others have said, demo as many as possible. I guess we are all biased towards our own gear, but I am very happy with the samurai, it is a beautifully created canopy and is made at PD, so you get all their build quality. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goose491 0 #13 October 30, 2003 QuoteQuote Since I am a Hawaii jumper (windy and bumpy), the Vengeance (airlocks) appeals but I haven't actually heard much about them except for PDs marketing.hree at my DZ)Quote the Samurai by Big Air Sportz is also an airlocked eliptical canopy. I jump one and I find it very stable in turbulent air, has sweet opening, flies great and just an all around great canopy. I don't swoop so I can't really comment on that, maybe some others can chirp in about that. Here here! The Samurai Rocks! Vengeance is a great Canopy, it's basically a second geration Jedei (Brian Germain), the Samurai is like third generation... the three canopies are very similar and very very cool. Check out Big Air sports for further info on the airlocks... they are Germains design. My Karma ran over my Dogma!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhreeZone 20 #14 October 30, 2003 QuoteVengeance is a great Canopy, it's basically a second geration Jedei (Brian Germain), the Samurai is like third generation... the three canopies are very similar and very very cool. Check out Big Air sports for further info on the airlocks... they are Germains design. The Vengence is an all original PD design. Brian licensed them the Airlock to build into a canopy that they would design and the Vengence is the result. The Samurai is based off the concepts learned in the Jedei Sweptwing. The Jedei went through many changes and alterations while in production. Have you seen a canopy with inner and outer stabilizers before? I've jumped a Jedei like that. Brian tweeked the sweptwing and made the changes the Jedei jumpers asked for to create the Samurai Brian has even had a few designs for the Airlock itself. The PCS Airlock and the original design are slightly different designs.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites flyhi 24 #15 October 30, 2003 John, I jumped my Vengeance out there in June (Where were you, bruddah?) and it was very stable. Didn't land in the slot and still did just fine. Definitely a good ride. I'm loading it at about 1.6:1.0 and it was sweet. It's a lot of fun on no wind days, too, not that you ever get those out there. If I move back, I would think about getting something smaller, though. When you know you are going to face 15 - 20 mph winds 80% of the time, you want to be prepared for it. Right now, plans are to come back in March. Hope to see you then. round, meeker, donut, bipole, hollywoodShit happens. And it usually happens because of physics. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcoller 0 #16 November 11, 2003 Hey Bob! I got the e-mail about your visit but, I was out doing a sailboat race that weekend. I didn't know you had a Vengeance, you were still jumping a Stilleto the last time we jumped together! Where do you jump most these days? I've been to Palatka and Deland and it seemed Palatka was pretty quiet in comparison. Your flamboyant style requires a BIG DZ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
PhreeZone 20 #14 October 30, 2003 QuoteVengeance is a great Canopy, it's basically a second geration Jedei (Brian Germain), the Samurai is like third generation... the three canopies are very similar and very very cool. Check out Big Air sports for further info on the airlocks... they are Germains design. The Vengence is an all original PD design. Brian licensed them the Airlock to build into a canopy that they would design and the Vengence is the result. The Samurai is based off the concepts learned in the Jedei Sweptwing. The Jedei went through many changes and alterations while in production. Have you seen a canopy with inner and outer stabilizers before? I've jumped a Jedei like that. Brian tweeked the sweptwing and made the changes the Jedei jumpers asked for to create the Samurai Brian has even had a few designs for the Airlock itself. The PCS Airlock and the original design are slightly different designs.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyhi 24 #15 October 30, 2003 John, I jumped my Vengeance out there in June (Where were you, bruddah?) and it was very stable. Didn't land in the slot and still did just fine. Definitely a good ride. I'm loading it at about 1.6:1.0 and it was sweet. It's a lot of fun on no wind days, too, not that you ever get those out there. If I move back, I would think about getting something smaller, though. When you know you are going to face 15 - 20 mph winds 80% of the time, you want to be prepared for it. Right now, plans are to come back in March. Hope to see you then. round, meeker, donut, bipole, hollywoodShit happens. And it usually happens because of physics. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcoller 0 #16 November 11, 2003 Hey Bob! I got the e-mail about your visit but, I was out doing a sailboat race that weekend. I didn't know you had a Vengeance, you were still jumping a Stilleto the last time we jumped together! Where do you jump most these days? I've been to Palatka and Deland and it seemed Palatka was pretty quiet in comparison. Your flamboyant style requires a BIG DZ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
