Lead

[DrewEckhardt 0]

I shrank from about 180 pounds down to 150 making hiking and dating easier, although my wing loading is at 1.6 instead of the 1.8 I was trying for when I ordered my Samurai.

I don't feel like taking another 100-200 jumps to get comfortable with a 95, or buying a new rig to hold it. Lead seems like a better answer.

The difference between my current exit weight and what I want is 19 pounds of lead. How much is comfortable? How much is a problem in a water landing?

[jumperconway 0]

This past season in 4-way i leaded up 16# comfortably. Practicing in the base for the POPs world record, I went as high as 44# and it hurt to walk! But talk about sweet swoops!

[twnsnd 1]

If lead is uncomfortable, you should try 19lbs of cotton balls.

-We are the Swoophaters. We have travelled back in time to hate on your swoops.-

[ianmdrennan 2]

I've worn up to 25 pounds (weight vest and belly band). I'd suggest the belly band weight system as you can easily get it up to 15 pounds and still be comfy, on the ground and in the air under canopy.

As for water, well, it's lead...it's gonna help you sink
Blue skies
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[Spizzzarko 0]

IT MIGHT MAKE YOU A LITTLE FLOATY THOUGH... being bulky and all.

[riddler 0]

Not to mention you can't keep up in a sit anymore

Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD

[Spizzzarko 0]

I have heard of some of the competitive swooper saying to get the biggest canopy possible and to use weight to bring their loading up. More wing means more lift.

[riddler 0]

Quote

More wing means more lift.

That makes no sense to me, but I'm not an aeronautical engineer either - just a plain ol' EE.

Lift is a force pulling up on the canopy, gravity is the force pulling down - one is opposed to the other. If you have more weight, you need more lift to make that weight fly. If you add more weight to our body, and increase the wing size, you're just getting back to where you started.

A bigger wing might help with landing, because more surface area would be exposed at the rear when you flare. So if you are looking for more stopping power, this might be a good strategy. But I don't see the advantage of putting on more weight, then upsizing, unless you upsize more square feet than you add pounds. Even then, you could do the same thing with just getting a bigger canopy with no weight.

Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD

[andy2 0]

[QUOTE]But I don't see the advantage of putting on more weight, then upsizing[/QUOTE]

I think the idea has to do with the recovery arc being so short on tiny canopies due to their short ass lines. A 120 crossbraced canopy is going to have a longer recovery arc (the time it takes to recover from a dive, i.e. you swing back under it) than a 75 at the same wingloading.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, please, but I think that's the general idea. Makes sense.

---------------------------------------------
let my inspiration flow,
in token rhyme suggesting rhythm...

[riddler 0]

That makes more sense - a longer recovery arc means more forward speed on the horizontal part of the swoop. Longer lines (i.e. bigger canopy) give you more recovery arc. But you need to keep the wingloading high to increase your total downward speed, so you add weight to offset the bigger canopy.

Does this mean that big fat skydivers make the best swoopers?

Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD

[Steel 0]

Quote

[QUOTE]But I don't see the advantage of putting on more weight, then upsizing[/QUOTE]

I think the idea has to do with the recovery arc being so short on tiny canopies due to their short ass lines. A 120 crossbraced canopy is going to have a longer recovery arc (the time it takes to recover from a dive, i.e. you swing back under it) than a 75 at the same wingloading.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, please, but I think that's the general idea. Makes sense.

This doesn't sound accurate. There is no doubt in my mind that my 55 has a longer recovery arc than my 70 (with my weight underneath it. Its a very significant difference. I remember the first time I jumped my 55 and I hooked it hard up high, I found myself staring up at the canopy wondering if it was ever going to stop diving because it dove so much longer than I was used to.

If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.

[Samurai136 0]

Quote

Lift is a force pulling up on the canopy, gravity is the force pulling down - one is opposed to the other. If you have more weight, you need more lift to make that weight fly. If you add more weight to our body, and increase the wing size, you're just getting back to where you started

When you add weight you increase the wingloading and increase the airspeed of the canopy. Increased airspeed= more lift.

Or think of it as having more momentum to keep the canopy flying for some longer defined distance.

Ken

"Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian
Ken

[Spizzzarko 0]

Ok a two part reply.

1. Riddler, Certain canopy's perform better at certain wingloadings. My VX performs best at 2.2. I'm sure your lotus performs best around 1.5. You should down load the "Wing Loading and it's Effects" off the PD websight under Education. If I were to go on a miracle diet and loose a bunch of weight over night, and then go fly a 60 VX at the same wing loading, I would not swoop as far as I would with my 98 VX. MORE WING EQUALS MORE LIFT.

[Spizzzarko 0]

PART 2 of the post,

Andy2,

2. You are actually mixed up. Recovery arc on smaller higher loaded canopy's is actually much larger. Let's reference the 60 and the 98 equation that I used in my last post. The 60 is going to have shorter lines than the 98. That much you got right, but it's going to have a lot less drag so it's going to lose more altitude in a dive, and it's going to go faster than the 98. It's also going to shut down at a faster airspeed than the 98. The 98 may not go quite as fast as the 60 in the dive, but it will be able to continute to fly when the 60 is about to fall out of the sky.

[andy2 0]

thanks for explaining that. I only gave any input bc it was explained to me by a proficient swooper awhile ago like I said. I guess I should always keep reading and asking as many people as many different questions as possible. Thanks spizzzarko!

---------------------------------------------
let my inspiration flow,
in token rhyme suggesting rhythm...

[DrewEckhardt 0]

Quote

If I were to go on a miracle diet and loose a bunch of weight over night, and then go fly a 60 VX at the same wing loading, I would not swoop as far as I would with my 98 VX. MORE WING EQUALS MORE LIFT.

Ok, I'm curious how significant this is with "real world" examples.

I could jump a Samurai 95 @ 171 pounds, or a Samurai 105 @ 189 - both loaded to exactly 1.8 pounds/square foot. Assuming I were a much better swooper, what sort of distance difference would I see?

[DrugAddict 0]

Don't BE THAT GUY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And next time you biff in, come up with a better excuse than "oh my pilot chute was stuck yada yada yada"

I'll be sure to think of you next time I take a dump.

[Spizzzarko 0]

There are a lot of variables to take into account such as DA, wind, speed , how good you are, landing area turbulance, so on and so forth. Let's take your canopy's for example and all the variables are the same. Even at the same wing loading the 95 is going to be slightly faster. It is a smaller wing, and it has shorter lines so there is going to be less drag. In your turn to final (dare I say it??? HOOK turn) you are going to build up more speed than with the 105. Assuming all of the variables are equal. BUT it will not swoop as Far as the 105. Why? There is less surface area in the 95 wing to create lift with. Therefore it will quit flying at a higher airspeed than the 105, again assuming all of the variables are equal. 4 years ago when pond surfing was starting to get big, a lot of the guys were jumping small canopys and going really really fast. They were getting accross the pond alright, but their canopy's where shutting down really really fast too, and you were seeing distance records of 340'. As time went by canopy sizes started to get a little bigger, and people started to perfect the use of rear risers. Subsequently, the distance records began to increase dramaticly in competition. Look at Mr. Shanon Pilcher's distance record of 418'. He was flying a Velocity 103, with a 3-5 knot downwind component. When asked, the meet director Jim Slaton, said the downwind component was "neglegible". So the bottom line is, if all the variables are tha same, you WILL swoop farther with the 105, because you will have more wing above your head to create lift with so you can still fly at a slower airspeed, thus flying further. How much of a difference you will see is pretty much up to you. Each landing is different. Different winds, DA, flare, landing area turbulance, so on and so forth. Ihope this has helped you out.