Hard Opening

[jumperguy 0]

I had a VERY hard opening about 5 weeks ago. Didn't fully lose consciousness, but was unresponsive for some unknown amount of time. No serious injuries--very painful stress fracture of the sternum kept me on Vicoden for 3 weeks.

Sabre 170, loaded at 1:1. I was playing with a new Audible, so was on my belly, stable, waiting on pull time. I always pack for myself (except this time). It was my 6th jump of the day and was tired, so used a packer at the DZ who is experienced and trusted (I'm not blaming the packer).

Being new to the sport, this is my first injury and, frankly, it spooked me. I don't want another opening like that one!

I've been told the following:
1. Sabres have a reputation for opening hard on occasion (is this true?)
2. Perhaps it was a simple packing error (if so, what exactly would cause a hard opening)
3. Maybe it was my body position at pull time (but I was on my belly, waiting on pull time)

Just trying to figure out what happened and how I can avoid it again...

Al

[Hooknswoop 19]

Quote

I've been told the following:
1. Sabres have a reputation for opening hard on occasion (is this true?)
2. Perhaps it was a simple packing error (if so, what exactly would cause a hard opening)
3. Maybe it was my body position at pull time (but I was on my belly, waiting on pull time)

1. Yep, it's true. I've installed a pocket onto the lsider of a number of Sabre's to tame the openings.

2. It is possible. I think there are two "biggies" that cause hard openings, not keeping the slider upp against the slider stops, and pulling w/ a high fall rate.

3. Doesn't sound like it. Your new audible, was it a pro-track? If it was, what was your "2nd half" fall rate?

Get a rigger to put a pocket on the slider and you won't have hard openings anymore.

Hook

[skygod7777 0]

yes sabre's are know to whack ya every once in a while.

and it probably way your body position. you may of had a shoulder low, and not really noticed it. then by having a shoulder low, one side of the canopy opened before the other, and therfore, didn't let the slider do the job. or if you grab your risers as soon as you pull, then you could of pulled down of them too much, and then that could of caused the bad opening.

later

[Hooknswoop 19]

I have video, several actually, of a Sabre drilling a student on opening and there was nothing wrong with their body position. One was a 50 ft-ish opening and the another one was a 75 ft-ish opening.

Hook

[skygod7777 0]

i'm not saying that it's always body positon. i'm just saying it could be a possibility. again, it could of also been line dump, the packer not pulling the slider out infront of the nose, not shoving the nose back far enough, not rolling the nose, there could be a lot of different reasons why it opened hard.

later

[Sonic 0]

We have a video at our dz of someone filming a guy's deployment (he was jumping a sabre), and before the guy goes up out of shot you can see the slider at the links. Must have opened in 100 foot.

-----------------------------------
It's like something out of that twilighty show about that zone

[weid14 0]

Quote

Quote

I've been told the following:
1. Sabres have a reputation for opening hard on occasion (is this true?)
2. Perhaps it was a simple packing error (if so, what exactly would cause a hard opening)
3. Maybe it was my body position at pull time (but I was on my belly, waiting on pull time)

1. Yep, it's true. I've installed a pocket onto the lsider of a number of Sabre's to tame the openings.

2. It is possible. I think there are two "biggies" that cause hard openings, not keeping the slider upp against the slider stops, and pulling w/ a high fall rate.

3. Doesn't sound like it. Your new audible, was it a pro-track? If it was, what was your "2nd half" fall rate?

Get a rigger to put a pocket on the slider and you won't have hard openings anymore.

Hook

My back -- like 4 years later -- is still sore from a sabre opening. I found that line stowes were very important, tight and long enough. that and rolling the tail with very careful slider placement. It is an unforgiving canopy in regards to packing.... actually after the canopy slammed me, I think I only jumped it a couple more times, I demoed a cobalt, bought a safire, crossfire, and now velocities, they all have opened nice for me.

[ifallout 0]

my sabre 170 loaded exactly the same, i have jumed it about 100 times and it has never had a hard opening. but i have heard others say the same thing about them opening hard sometimes.

Maybe you should just go back to packing for yourself... heheh

Bill

have fun, love life, be nice to the humans

[JYorkster 0]

I have about 400 jumps on a Sabre loaded the same as you. I have NEVER been slammed. I almost always pack my own. I'm not saying that the packer did anything worng, but he/she may have done something VERY different than you are used to. I suggest that you watch the packer pack someone else's rig and aske him/her how they packed yours. Make sure you approach them in a freindly manner and don't blame them for the hard opening, but learning how the rig was packed may help you prevent that kind of opening in the future.

Hope this helps.

Rock

[drenaline 0]

1. Yes, sabres open hard from time to time.

2. Could have been a problem with the packing, not a packing error but maybe not enough roll to the tail, roll it about 10 times and make sure that the rolls are tight.

3. Fly the opening, transition your body from the belly position to the sit when opening, it will reduce the force.

side note: check the line trim and check that the control lines are not twist. Check out the ram air canopy manual that PD has, it shows a way to pack for softer openings.

HISPA 21
www.panamafreefall.com

[bobsoutar 0]

[2. Perhaps it was a simple packing error (if so, what exactly would cause a hard opening)
]
Just an extra 2 cents worth because hard openings are sometimes attributed to line dump.

It is worth making sure that there is plenty of line (3-4 inches) through the bungees which pass through the bag closure grommets and that the bungees are tight around those lines.

[cobaltdan 0]

i fractured my c6 on opening with a sabre 135.
this is why i became involved in the industry: to design a safer softer opening parachute.

sincerely,

dan<><>
atair aerodynamics
www.extremefly.com

Daniel Preston <><>
atairaerodynamics.com (sport)
atairaerospace.com (military)

[rgoper 0]

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to design a safer softer opening parachute.

your work is not yet finished! J/K Dan. Thanks for the offer of help with my canopy problems, i should know something tomorrow if the wx holds.

--Richard--
"We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist"

[skymiles 3]

AMAZING!

I have a Sabre 170 loaded at 1:1, and about 5 weeks ago I too had an opening that was so hard it left me groggy for a few moments. After about 230 uneventful jumps on that canopy, I had 2 brutal openings in 2 months (the first one was unrelated to the canopy and I’ll explain below). I called two riggers I highly respect to find a solution. They knew exactly what I was talking about and both agreed on the problem, which can best be described in three words – slider, slider, slider. If the slider is out of place, the bottom skin of the canopy will instead take the initial opening shock and cause the canopy to open instantaneously. The slider must be all the up against the stoppers and make sure it doesn’t slip down when you lay it on the floor or Z-fold it. After quartering the slider, they suggested pulling the front edge of the slider a little forward of the nose and to make sure it does NOT get rolled into the tail. Since then, I have had the softest on-heading opening ever! Of course, roll the nose.

As for the other hard opening 3 months ago, it was a premature deployment while in a stand. Ouch is right. I was airlifted to hospital with a possible broken neck, but fortunately, it was only a bad case of whiplash. Strangely enough though, like you, the only lingering pain is a sore sternum. What’s up with that? I’ll have to go back and check the x-rays for a possible fractured sternum.

Philip

[Scoby 0]

About 10 weeks ago, I got rocked by a rental Sabre 2. I also didn't quite pass out, but I saw stars and my vision went blurry. My ribs were on fire and my back hurt. It was definitely interesting landing a canopy I'd never jumped before at an unfamiliar dropzone while barely functional. I had to hang out at the DZ for six hours before I was able to drive home, and even that was dicey.

I never went to a doctor, so I don't know what actually happened. My ribs were on fire for several weeks. When that subsided enough, I started to notice the sternum pain that had been masked by the ribs. That too faded, leaving me with a sore upper back. It still hurts now.

I never truly found out what happened. I am confident that it wasn't body position (I was belly to earth and stable, hadn't been tracking). I don't know if it was the packjob. I know the Sabre 2 has a reputation for great openings. I've been renting Spectres ever since, though.

[wolfies11 0]

I've had some very hard openings on a falcon.Check your rubber bands,I double wrap all my line stows and replace the rubber bands every 4th jump.I know its a pain in the ass but it ended my hard openings.

[riggerrob 643]

Early Sabres are not inherently hard opening, they are just un-forgiving of sloppy packing. You can convince any canopy to open hard if you pack it sloppily enough.
How you stow your rubber bands can make a huge difference in how hard your canopy opens. This summer one of our up-jumpers shredded a Stiletto (a canopy with a reputation for soft openings). After one glance at his d-bag, I told him that I suspected that the problem was that he had not double-wrapped his rubber bands.

Not that I am innocent by a long shot. Recently I got lazy while stowing the lines on a Diablo (another canopy with a reputation for soft openings) and it spanked me on opening.
I also know that if you use longer-than-factory bungees on a Strong tandem, even the sweetest SET 400 will "remind" you.

[BodyFlier 0]

I was trying to help my buddy make the next load for him to video a tandem and I ,so Ipacked his sabre 170 ,make a long story short he left in a van with lots of pretty lites on it ,but was ok SORRY ROB!

[kansasskydiver 0]

Yeah Sabre's will do that. I had a hard opening on mine. 170, 1.45:1, opened so hard it broke the skin on my legs and left an outline of my legstraps. But doesn't sound as hard as yorus was. I've found that by rolling the HECK out of the tail up top first, then rolling the rest slows down the openings. Ya know the ones that stand youup slowwing, you feel yourself slowing down and then it snivvles above your head... Oh those are nice. I haven't done anything different to my sabre, no pocket on the slider etc. Just roll the tail TIGHT!!! and make sure you roll the nose and stuff it as well of course

<--- See look, pink dolphins DO exist!

[Ducky 0]

I am the proud new owner of a 3 yr old Sabre and can say so far so good. Only 4 jumps on it so far though. I was aware of this reputation and had some hesitation in buying the canopy, but the first jump I put on it was the softest nicest opening I have ever had.

I did spend some time kicking around on PD's website last night researching the Sabre and tips on packing it. There was a very useful article on How to Avoid Hard Openings Chesk it out and hopefully it will help.

kwak

Sometimes your the bug, sometimes your the windshield. Sometimes your the hammer sometimes your the nail. Question is Hun, Do you wanna get hammered or do you wanna get nailed?????

[Kris 0]

I got tired of trying to tame my Sabre 210. I would still get an occasional spanker even with a pocket slider, pencil rolling the tail very tight, and psycho-packing it.

I finally fixed the problem entirely by replacing it with a Stiletto and my back has thanked me every jump since.

Kris

Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and
Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™

[flyana3 0]

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Yeah Sabre's will do that. I had a hard opening on mine. 170, 1.45:1, opened so hard it broke the skin on my legs and left an outline of my legstraps. But doesn't sound as hard as yorus was. I've found that by rolling the HECK out of the tail up top first, then rolling the rest slows down the openings. Ya know the ones that stand youup slowwing, you feel yourself slowing down and then it snivvles above your head... Oh those are nice. I haven't done anything different to my sabre, no pocket on the slider etc. Just roll the tail TIGHT!!! and make sure you roll the nose and stuff it as well of course

i'm still so amazed that people have so much loyalty in a company that they continue to jump something that hurts them

[upndownshop 0]

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I had a VERY hard opening about 5 weeks ago. Didn't fully lose consciousness, but was unresponsive for some unknown amount of time. No serious injuries--very painful stress fracture of the sternum kept me on Vicoden for 3 weeks.

Sabre 170, loaded at 1:1. I was playing with a new Audible, so was on my belly, stable, waiting on pull time. I always pack for myself (except this time). It was my 6th jump of the day and was tired, so used a packer at the DZ who is experienced and trusted (I'm not blaming the packer).

Being new to the sport, this is my first injury and, frankly, it spooked me. I don't want another opening like that one!

I've been told the following:
1. Sabres have a reputation for opening hard on occasion (is this true?)
2. Perhaps it was a simple packing error (if so, what exactly would cause a hard opening)
3. Maybe it was my body position at pull time (but I was on my belly, waiting on pull time)

Just trying to figure out what happened and how I can avoid it again...

Al

If it was built in th early 90's it might have the original slider on it, which eventually PD changed to a larger size.
Contact PD if the DOM fits in that range. They can hook you up with specs.

good luck

[upndownshop 0]

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i'm still so amazed that people have so much loyalty in a company that they continue to jump something that hurts them

Probably the same reason you jump a revised version of a canopy that killed people.

[flyana3 0]

i'm pretty sure all canopies kill people...

i'm just really really glad i DO NOT jump a canopy that could break my femur, hip, pelvis, back, neck, etc. just on a normal (not malfunction) opening sequence?!?!!! NO THANKS!

-diana