LittleSkyWitch 0 #1 December 9, 2003 This week-end me and group of kiev skydivers are going to visit Carpathian mountains. The Trostyan mountain is one of the biggest and most inviting for snowboarders and skiers mountain. We want to try speeding up of our canopies from the mountain. I know this is not very safe and a good experience is needed. I also know about blade running. But still I have a huge amount of questions. Are there people who can help me to find answers or at least any information concearning blade running? The questions are: 1. Is it possible to speed up any canopy from the mountain/ How to do it 2. What should be the characteristics of the mountain: the area, the angle of the slope? the width of run, the width between blades 3. What should be the characteristics of the canopy: wing load, quantaty of cells (7 or 9), high performance or ellipticall or just square. 4. What should be the wind: side, from the bottom, upper. What does the direction of the wind influence at? 5. How to equip oneself properly? Is it necessary to put on any supplementary protection? Are there any special safety rules? What sould be the level to start blade running 6. Is it necessary to upgrade the canopy system for blade running? For ex., to put off the slider, to lengthen lines or something else? 7. What about the possible injuries? How to avoid any unpleasant situations, etc... 8. Is it possible to call blade running a skydiving discipline? Are there (were there) any competitions, championships? What are the rules? 9. Who were the participants or is it possible to talk with one of the experience blade runner? Thanks if you have read all of that up to the end I'm very interested in all information about blade running. Thanks one more time __*______________________________ Little SkyWitch http://www.skydiveua.info ______________________________*__ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
andy2 0 #2 December 9, 2003 looks pretty dangerous/easy to fuck up. You're basically doing just one long prolonged swoop over the course of a mountain. I think its one of those things you'd be better off not doing unless you had advice from someone who is experienced at it, in person. I dare say the internet might exacerbate your problems. --------------------------------------------- let my inspiration flow, in token rhyme suggesting rhythm... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LittleSkyWitch 0 #3 December 9, 2003 QuoteI dare say the internet might exacerbate your problems. I think, internet is the only way to find an experienced person and to discuss the question with people who did it that is the reason of my writing here instead of experimenting on the mountain with the canopy__*______________________________ Little SkyWitch http://www.skydiveua.info ______________________________*__ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #4 December 9, 2003 I've never done it... But, there used to be a video program of it on a website I watched all the time. I mainly saw Stilettos, Crossfires, and Crossbraced stuff on it. Ground launching or the perfered method on the show was helicopter jumps at 2500 feet. If you can't do pond swoops and carve on the water then you have no business even thinking about a mountian. Winds are scary, they get channeled up the ski runs and where it forks it can create turbulence and downdrafts. Either of which can cause the canopy to collapse and kill you. Turning to follow a winding path down the side of a mountian was requiring the jumpers to use all the inputs they could including Harness, front and rear riser and toggles.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Staso 0 #5 December 9, 2003 i was thinking about doing it this year and most likely i will. i kinda wish i had my old safire with shorter recovery arch to do that rather then crossfire2 that i fly now. well, let us know how it goes :) stan. -- it's not about defying gravity; it's how hard you can abuse it. speed skydiving it is ... Speed Skydiving Forum Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Treejumps 0 #6 December 9, 2003 I have not participated in the blade running, yet, but I have studied it since it is on my to do list. For starters, if you are not an EXPERT canopy pilot, you will either get hurt, or spend a bunch of time walking and sliding down the mountain. It is no walk in the park, and certainly requires tremendous canopy skills. Even the highest performance canopies require lots of front riser input to stay on the glide path of mountain slope. Considering that its easy to go 40 mph (70 - 80 KPH) in that configuration, any inadvertant contact with bumps, trees, or hard snowpack will break you. On the other hand, if you are just trying to ground launch and take a leisurely canopy ride down the mountain, remove your PC and bag, tiw your slider down, leave your chest strap as wide open as you can, then lay your canopy out behind you on a steep alope and start skiing as fast as you can and you should be able to launch. You will find it works better if you hold your rear risers in your hands so that you can control the canopy as it starts to inflate. Beware windy days on big mountains. Anything other than a hP canopy with a good pilot will just fly away from the mountain. Beware landing facing uphill. (splat) THis is called canopy soaring and its been for decades. Leave the blade running to the pros. Have fun. Tree Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkymonkeyONE 4 #7 December 9, 2003 I am assuming when you say "speed up your canopy on the mountain" that you are talking about ground launching. There are a couple of comanies that make harnesses specifically for this application so that you are not dirtying your rig up, plus getting hampered by it's useless (in this application) bulk. That said, like Tree said, this is not something that the average Joe needs to be contemplating. My best-friends who have done this at sanctioned events have all stated that it was some of the most demanding canopy piloting they had attempted. Thermals, rotors off the trees, swirling winds, etc, all make for an intensive ride. I have a lot of video of people botching ground launches and ass surfing down the mountain. I also have a lot of video of people getting slammed into the ground (howdy Andy!) because of their canopies collapsing. I would say that if you have a very-open mountain with a smooth slope and few trees, you might consider giving it a whirl; I know I really want to. That said, since we are talking about what people ARE using, I can tell you that the first guys were all doing it under their Stilletos and the like in fairly large sizes. Later competitions on much steeper mountains made it possible for competitors to use their smaller crossbraced canopies. Unfortunately, the runs that made it possible to use those mains left incredibly little room for error in navigation down the mountain and in landing and stopping their canopies. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites roq 0 #8 December 9, 2003 I tried several times the flight in mountain, without snow, as paragliding, with main canopys BT40, Nitro88, Contrail 135, Impulse 85 and 120, accuracy Parafoil 252 and canopies that I made AR7 100 and AR7 95 and others, per times small flights of 20/30 meters and other times more longer flights of about 1 to 2 minutes. The main problem is to get a good and safe place for take-off and to landing . For landing you need well a ramp inclined, (so much more inclined as low is the wind and less performance and size have the canopie) and without obstacles in front to avoid collisions The ramp should be very exposed to the predominant wind to avoid crossed winds to the take-off that can provoke abrupt losses of lift. The technique for take-off is the same to the paragliding; to inflate the canopy against the wind, to hoist the canopy as a kite, to turn the body and to run maintaining the canopie very pointed to the wind. Dangers: Little time for the preparation for landing because of the natural big speed of the HP canopies. To fly close of the land, risk of sudden loss of height and collision with the land To fly to leeward, danger of collapses and abrupt losses of height The best form of not assume the big risks is big experience in canopie control, to fly away of the hill, to maintain the flight speed, front wind and to have always close the target for landing. At any form the experience is always dangerous Roq Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Treejumps 0 #9 December 9, 2003 Is that a real picture? Look at the time code. Are you sure you wern't up to something else at that time? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jumperconway 0 #10 December 9, 2003 4:20 PM? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites roq 0 #11 December 9, 2003 Yes, I am me in my homemade canopy AR7 95 4.20 PM is the time of the foto machine roq Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freeflycracker 0 #12 December 10, 2003 loq Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GravityGirl 0 #13 December 10, 2003 QuoteQuoteI dare say the internet might exacerbate your problems. I think, internet is the only way to find an experienced person and to discuss the question with people who did it that is the reason of my writing here instead of experimenting on the mountain with the canopy A guy named Alex from Colorado used to do this a lot. He is an LO in Perris Valley now. Maybe you can contact him. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Peace and Blue Skies! Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites hookitt 1 #14 December 10, 2003 A friend of mine did a bunch of flights on a raven 1 and a stiletto 150. (why the raven 1... I haven't the foggiest) A head wind is the way to go. Inflate the canopy behind you and push on the front risers to keep it up. Run like hell and fly off the edge then hit the brakes. Hopefully there's a slope you can practice this on cuz there's a high probability you'll crash. Remember, on some flights, it's all or nothing so be sure you have it figured out befor running off of an edge. Disclaimer.... Don't be stupid. If it seems dangerous, it is. If it doesn't seem dangerous, it probably still is. Then remember all that stuff about wind and rotors and hope for the best. Good luck.My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites LittleSkyWitch 0 #15 December 11, 2003 I understand And what is the best approximate slope angle for such things? Tomorrow we are leaving to mountains.. so very soon you'll know the results of this crazy event __*______________________________ Little SkyWitch http://www.skydiveua.info ______________________________*__ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites roq 0 #16 December 11, 2003 I think about 45 degree minimum roq Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Mickee 0 #17 December 11, 2003 Quote 8. Is it possible to call blade running a skydiving discipline? Are there (were there) any competitions, championships? What are the rules? I don't think it is an official dicipline, but there are a few bladerunning competitions here in sweden... Using a normal skislope they navigate a slalomcourse over a few hundred meters and gets scored based on the shortest time to complete the course, and gets timepenaltys for missing a port. You can check out the competitions homepage at Sweden ProBlade Cup (only in swedish) or watch a clip of a few runs Here (2,8MB WMV) I am not affiliated with the competition and have never participated or watched it live, so my information comes from the website and the people I know that has participated... Edit to add: They use regular skydivning gear and jump from airplanes as usual, so you won't find any info about starting from a mountain there... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Brains 2 #18 December 11, 2003 That is freakin crazy. Did anyone else notice the turbulence those canopies were flying through? Never look down on someone, unless they are going down on you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jerry81 10 #19 December 11, 2003 QuoteThat is freakin crazy. Did anyone else notice the turbulence those canopies were flying through? Yup. I assume those guys are pretty good canopy pilots, yet they seem to be wrestling for control a lot of the time. Made me realize just how stupid it was to have bladerunning on my list of "must try soon" things. (now moved to a saner place on "must try sometime" list ) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites aarco 0 #20 December 22, 2003 Be sure to take a cell phone, GPS, and someone who is an EMT with the right med bag, C collar, back board. Video camera, hope you took a video camera Having something never beats doing (>|<) Iam building things - Iam working on my mind- I am going to change this world - its what I came here 4- - - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ffejdraga 0 #21 January 9, 2004 Stan, Someone we know works up at Mount Snow, and has late night access up there... hmmm. The North Face calls, then get a ride back up in the snow cat!!! jeff D-16906 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Staso 0 #22 January 9, 2004 QuoteStan, Someone we know works up at Mount Snow, and has late night access up there... hmmm. The North Face calls, then get a ride back up in the snow cat!!! jeff D-16906 yeah, me and Nik were thinking about going skiing and taking our rigs with us, but it's gonna be freaking cold, so we're gonna do it later. :) wanna go ? stan. -- it's not about defying gravity; it's how hard you can abuse it. speed skydiving it is ... Speed Skydiving Forum Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ziboulateur 0 #23 January 9, 2004 Hmmm...Jeff! Moonlight bladerunning! At least the air might be really calm. Do we need to buy a night vision device :)? How's your cold, man. Going climbing saturday? Stan? Nik Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JustRelax 0 #24 February 23, 2004 How did you get along with finding out about blade running. I am new to skydiving but am interested in flying down mountains - might take me a few years! Still, I am interested in finding out any information, because It will at least help me to strategize my learning curve focussed on canopy skills. Hope you enjoyed your trip to the mountain. ________________________________________ Taking risk is part of living well - it's best to learn from other peoples mistakes, rather than your own. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites MathmatiC 0 #25 February 26, 2004 Yeah His name is Alex Allen. Contact him at Alex@freeflymegacenter.com I saw some of the video he took while doing it. It was a pretty mellow ride from what I saw, he used Skiis and got some decent lift. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
SkymonkeyONE 4 #7 December 9, 2003 I am assuming when you say "speed up your canopy on the mountain" that you are talking about ground launching. There are a couple of comanies that make harnesses specifically for this application so that you are not dirtying your rig up, plus getting hampered by it's useless (in this application) bulk. That said, like Tree said, this is not something that the average Joe needs to be contemplating. My best-friends who have done this at sanctioned events have all stated that it was some of the most demanding canopy piloting they had attempted. Thermals, rotors off the trees, swirling winds, etc, all make for an intensive ride. I have a lot of video of people botching ground launches and ass surfing down the mountain. I also have a lot of video of people getting slammed into the ground (howdy Andy!) because of their canopies collapsing. I would say that if you have a very-open mountain with a smooth slope and few trees, you might consider giving it a whirl; I know I really want to. That said, since we are talking about what people ARE using, I can tell you that the first guys were all doing it under their Stilletos and the like in fairly large sizes. Later competitions on much steeper mountains made it possible for competitors to use their smaller crossbraced canopies. Unfortunately, the runs that made it possible to use those mains left incredibly little room for error in navigation down the mountain and in landing and stopping their canopies. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
roq 0 #8 December 9, 2003 I tried several times the flight in mountain, without snow, as paragliding, with main canopys BT40, Nitro88, Contrail 135, Impulse 85 and 120, accuracy Parafoil 252 and canopies that I made AR7 100 and AR7 95 and others, per times small flights of 20/30 meters and other times more longer flights of about 1 to 2 minutes. The main problem is to get a good and safe place for take-off and to landing . For landing you need well a ramp inclined, (so much more inclined as low is the wind and less performance and size have the canopie) and without obstacles in front to avoid collisions The ramp should be very exposed to the predominant wind to avoid crossed winds to the take-off that can provoke abrupt losses of lift. The technique for take-off is the same to the paragliding; to inflate the canopy against the wind, to hoist the canopy as a kite, to turn the body and to run maintaining the canopie very pointed to the wind. Dangers: Little time for the preparation for landing because of the natural big speed of the HP canopies. To fly close of the land, risk of sudden loss of height and collision with the land To fly to leeward, danger of collapses and abrupt losses of height The best form of not assume the big risks is big experience in canopie control, to fly away of the hill, to maintain the flight speed, front wind and to have always close the target for landing. At any form the experience is always dangerous Roq Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Treejumps 0 #9 December 9, 2003 Is that a real picture? Look at the time code. Are you sure you wern't up to something else at that time? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
roq 0 #11 December 9, 2003 Yes, I am me in my homemade canopy AR7 95 4.20 PM is the time of the foto machine roq Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GravityGirl 0 #13 December 10, 2003 QuoteQuoteI dare say the internet might exacerbate your problems. I think, internet is the only way to find an experienced person and to discuss the question with people who did it that is the reason of my writing here instead of experimenting on the mountain with the canopy A guy named Alex from Colorado used to do this a lot. He is an LO in Perris Valley now. Maybe you can contact him. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Peace and Blue Skies! Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 1 #14 December 10, 2003 A friend of mine did a bunch of flights on a raven 1 and a stiletto 150. (why the raven 1... I haven't the foggiest) A head wind is the way to go. Inflate the canopy behind you and push on the front risers to keep it up. Run like hell and fly off the edge then hit the brakes. Hopefully there's a slope you can practice this on cuz there's a high probability you'll crash. Remember, on some flights, it's all or nothing so be sure you have it figured out befor running off of an edge. Disclaimer.... Don't be stupid. If it seems dangerous, it is. If it doesn't seem dangerous, it probably still is. Then remember all that stuff about wind and rotors and hope for the best. Good luck.My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LittleSkyWitch 0 #15 December 11, 2003 I understand And what is the best approximate slope angle for such things? Tomorrow we are leaving to mountains.. so very soon you'll know the results of this crazy event __*______________________________ Little SkyWitch http://www.skydiveua.info ______________________________*__ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
roq 0 #16 December 11, 2003 I think about 45 degree minimum roq Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mickee 0 #17 December 11, 2003 Quote 8. Is it possible to call blade running a skydiving discipline? Are there (were there) any competitions, championships? What are the rules? I don't think it is an official dicipline, but there are a few bladerunning competitions here in sweden... Using a normal skislope they navigate a slalomcourse over a few hundred meters and gets scored based on the shortest time to complete the course, and gets timepenaltys for missing a port. You can check out the competitions homepage at Sweden ProBlade Cup (only in swedish) or watch a clip of a few runs Here (2,8MB WMV) I am not affiliated with the competition and have never participated or watched it live, so my information comes from the website and the people I know that has participated... Edit to add: They use regular skydivning gear and jump from airplanes as usual, so you won't find any info about starting from a mountain there... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brains 2 #18 December 11, 2003 That is freakin crazy. Did anyone else notice the turbulence those canopies were flying through? Never look down on someone, unless they are going down on you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerry81 10 #19 December 11, 2003 QuoteThat is freakin crazy. Did anyone else notice the turbulence those canopies were flying through? Yup. I assume those guys are pretty good canopy pilots, yet they seem to be wrestling for control a lot of the time. Made me realize just how stupid it was to have bladerunning on my list of "must try soon" things. (now moved to a saner place on "must try sometime" list ) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aarco 0 #20 December 22, 2003 Be sure to take a cell phone, GPS, and someone who is an EMT with the right med bag, C collar, back board. Video camera, hope you took a video camera Having something never beats doing (>|<) Iam building things - Iam working on my mind- I am going to change this world - its what I came here 4- - - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ffejdraga 0 #21 January 9, 2004 Stan, Someone we know works up at Mount Snow, and has late night access up there... hmmm. The North Face calls, then get a ride back up in the snow cat!!! jeff D-16906 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Staso 0 #22 January 9, 2004 QuoteStan, Someone we know works up at Mount Snow, and has late night access up there... hmmm. The North Face calls, then get a ride back up in the snow cat!!! jeff D-16906 yeah, me and Nik were thinking about going skiing and taking our rigs with us, but it's gonna be freaking cold, so we're gonna do it later. :) wanna go ? stan. -- it's not about defying gravity; it's how hard you can abuse it. speed skydiving it is ... Speed Skydiving Forum Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ziboulateur 0 #23 January 9, 2004 Hmmm...Jeff! Moonlight bladerunning! At least the air might be really calm. Do we need to buy a night vision device :)? How's your cold, man. Going climbing saturday? Stan? Nik Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JustRelax 0 #24 February 23, 2004 How did you get along with finding out about blade running. I am new to skydiving but am interested in flying down mountains - might take me a few years! Still, I am interested in finding out any information, because It will at least help me to strategize my learning curve focussed on canopy skills. Hope you enjoyed your trip to the mountain. ________________________________________ Taking risk is part of living well - it's best to learn from other peoples mistakes, rather than your own. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MathmatiC 0 #25 February 26, 2004 Yeah His name is Alex Allen. Contact him at Alex@freeflymegacenter.com I saw some of the video he took while doing it. It was a pretty mellow ride from what I saw, he used Skiis and got some decent lift. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
