frankiebrina 0 #1 January 25, 2004 Does anyone know when is PD going to post the Flight Characteristics on there web site of the new KATANA.?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
b1jercat 0 #2 January 25, 2004 YES. blues jerry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflydrew 0 #3 January 25, 2004 I know, too! wink, wink, nudge, nudge... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frankiebrina 0 #4 January 25, 2004 And?? When is it then?? Or does anyone have information on what the flight characteristics will be?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #5 January 25, 2004 QuoteOr does anyone have information on what the flight characteristics will be?? I am positive that several people have info on flight characteristics as they have been flying the hell out of the Katana in Deland. It would be wrong to start putting information out there that might not be in line with what the manufacturer has planned. It is forthcoming and shall be released as soon as it is ready. Until then anything is speculation and unfounded. Patients, it won't be long now"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflydrew 0 #6 January 26, 2004 QuoteAnd?? When is it then?? Or does anyone have information on what the flight characteristics will be?? Take a look at PDs website and read for yourself. It'll be available for demo after the 1st of February (so the website countdown says) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gus 1 #7 January 26, 2004 I can almost guarantee that the following words will appear on the new Katana page: Katana Soft On Heading Openings Sorry if I've spoilt it for anyone GusOutpatientsOnline.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jaaplepoole 0 #8 January 26, 2004 Gus, will it be easy to fly too? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
koz2000 1 #9 January 26, 2004 From the PD web http://www.performancedesigns.com/katana/testlogs.asp enjoy d______________________________________________ - Does this small canopy make my balls look big? - J. Hayes - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TAVI 0 #10 January 26, 2004 QuoteI can almost guarantee that the following words will appear on the new Katana page: Katana Soft On Heading Openings Sorry if I've spoilt it for anyone Gus As stated on ALL their canopies pages? Even the Sabre... lol ... soft ... LOL--------------------------------------- Ale, Ya! Pafuera, Padentro, Pafueraaaaaaa Hispa # 12 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BrianSGermain 1 #11 January 28, 2004 But where are the Airlocks?Instructional Videos:www.AdventureWisdom.com Keynote Speaking:www.TranscendingFEAR.com Canopies and Courses:www.BIGAIRSPORTZ.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #12 January 28, 2004 I asked the same question and got a blank faced reply In all honesty there are posters on here that have jumped it a few times already and say its faster then the Stiletto, but the Velocity still wins on swoops.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Supergeil 0 #13 January 28, 2004 Hi Brian. Isn't your design? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #14 January 28, 2004 QuoteBut where are the Airlocks? Fortunately they never got cut, meaning this thing should open nicer than the Vengance.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnischalke 0 #15 January 28, 2004 And we all know that openings are what really matter. Personally, I love my Samurai with the airlocks during every part of canopy flight, thank you very much. If you want a Samurai without airlocks, just buy a Katana. mike Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #16 January 28, 2004 QuoteAnd we all know that openings are what really matter. Yep. Especialy when I have 7-12lbs of camera equipment on my head. I selected my first crossbraced canopies because they were the best opening ones on the market at the time. So far in my experience with Airlocks, I'll take a non-airlocked canopy for openings. I don't have an overiding reason to jump anything with airlocks, as the performance I get from my curent wings is what I'm looking for. Airlocks are a tool that can be benificial to some. Some people like how they fly. But there are a lot of people I've talked to that have an airlocked canopy simply because they think more is better. Same type of person that buys a Crossbraced canopy and loads it at 1.4 Brian: Where's that Sensei? That sounds interesting.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BrianSGermain 1 #17 January 28, 2004 I recognize your assumption, and you are incorrect. Airlocks did not cause the opening issues experienced by the Vengeance. The parachute did that all by itself. {Proof of this lies in the fact that the Samurai and Jedei canopies open very nicely, both of which have the Airlock System). Careful not to form a prejudice to something that might save your life.Instructional Videos:www.AdventureWisdom.com Keynote Speaking:www.TranscendingFEAR.com Canopies and Courses:www.BIGAIRSPORTZ.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #18 January 28, 2004 You're right Brian, I did assume that, but you must realize that with the evidence presented to me (the only two types of airlocked canopies I've jumped have been the Vengance and the Jedi and both types opened signifigantly harder than my any canopy I've owned) I could come to such a conclusion. I dispute the fact that airlocks could save my life however. They are a tool. Your statement sugests that the wings I currently fly are Unsafe?---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BrianSGermain 1 #19 January 28, 2004 I don't think that is a fair statement. Open cell canopies can remain stable in some pretty nasty turbulence. They have a proven track record. They don't seal off the nose completely, however. Therefore they must be flown accordingly. In general, a parachute maintains stability through the maintanence of two things: line tension and airfoil shape. This can be controlled to a large degree by that actions of the pilot. If the canopy pilot maintains airspeed and positive "g's" throughout the flight, there can be a reasonable expectation that things will end well. The purpose of airlocks is to enhance this safety margin by reducing that rate of change of internal pressure in the wing. This gives the wing ample opportunity to fly through bad air, as well as providing the pilot time to react. If you allow the wing to surge forward and go to zero "g's", you are seriously opening the door for a collapse. If the wing is completely open at the leading edge, it can immediately dump the air pressure, and fall into an unstable flight mode before the pilot has a chance to react. I am not making this stuff up. Airlocked canopies have been in the air for 9 1/2 years, and still nobody has died from a collapse that I know of. That is a great number of data points. Further supportive evidance lies in the obserations of countless skydivers that report that they flew through nasty air while the open cell canopy next to them whiped out. I still believe that airlock canopies are the way of the future. The fact that the designers are still learning to implement the technology is a big limiting factor. The other limitation of the proliferation of this common sense technology is the beliefs of the pilots. If you get away with doing things as you always have, you naturally assume that you are on the right path. It may be, however, that you have been luckier than you thought. Time will tell. I know that airlocks are only one part of the solution. Flying technique is something that takes time to trickle down, but it must. We must survive, because we are, quite simply, the coolest people in the world.Instructional Videos:www.AdventureWisdom.com Keynote Speaking:www.TranscendingFEAR.com Canopies and Courses:www.BIGAIRSPORTZ.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #20 January 29, 2004 I'm not knocking airlocks. I've just not found an airlocked canopy I like. Like I said in the fist post, where's the Sensei?I still stand by my impression that some people purchace airlocked canopies because they thing more is better rather than for a saftey reason. I've been selling gear for 5 years now, and boy do people have some interesting notions. As for airlocks being safer, true if put in a bad situation they can give an edge to saftey. But to make a comparison to something mentioned in a handgun thread, I am the most important saftey feature of my canopy. I'll tell you where I ould REALLY be interested in seeing Airlocks used, would be on a tandem canopy. When you are under something that un manuverable, with heavy slow acting control inputs, and 200 lbs of non helpful dead weight on the front, and a dust devil colapses the right 3rd of your canopy at 150 ft, that's where I want my edge. What do ya' think? I've got to say this, Brian your canopy seminar at the last PIA was OUTSTANDING. I've modeled my talks around alot of it. I still have the outline you presented, maybe you could make it avaliable online.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnischalke 0 #21 January 29, 2004 Now you're talking apples and oranges. Cross-braced canopies have a different design and nose/inlets. It can be said that airlocks do form cross braces, but again, that's a different animal than a cross-braced 7- or 9-cell and is more akin to non-airlocked 9-cells. As far as opening characteristics of an airlocked canopy, I can make mine snivel, or I can make it feel like my camera helmet is about to pry my skull from my spine. If I don't set the brakes, it'll probably snivel to the ground. It's about the packjob, just like any other 9-cell. Do the airlocks make it fill faster? I think they do to some extent (since there's no breathing in and out as the cells inflate and the bottom skin inflates), but again, packing technique can easily slow it down. The trim and newness of the lineset can also contribute to opening characteristics, as Big Air canopies use a combination of lines. I accept that and will pack for it, because I like the feeling of security I get from having Vectran brake lines. All things and performance issues aside, I personally enjoy having a rigid wing above me after deployment. I've seen and experienced too much to rely on open-nosed breathers when I can fly airlocks. When PD seemingly copied the Lotus and the Samurai in building the Sabre2 and the Katana, respectively, I think they left out the best part of the designs: the airlocks. Then again, that might be too obvious (and prohibited since, as I recall, they only got the license for airlocks to build the Vengeance). Which makes me wonder, if PD owned the patent for airlocks, how many airlocked canopies would be out there right now? Would there be any question as to the usefulness of them? mike Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #22 January 29, 2004 Quotebecause I like the feeling of security I get from having Vectran brake lines. Ask TitaniumLegs about Vectran control lines. I'f I could have my newest (soon to be delivered) canopy set up the way I really wanted it it would have continuous HMA suspention lines, and 400 lbs Dacron as the control lines. QuoteWhen PD seemingly copied the Lotus and the Samurai in building the Sabre2 and the Katana, What makes you think PD copied any designs? QuoteCross-braced canopies have a different design and nose/inlets. And so do a bunch of the non-crossbraced designs on the market right now. Again, nothing wrong with airlocks. I've yet to fly a canopy I like with them when compared to cossbraced and non crossbraced designs I've owned.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnischalke 0 #23 January 29, 2004 Quote...Further supportive evidance lies in the obserations of countless skydivers that report that they flew through nasty air while the open cell canopy next to them whiped out. I have seen that first hand, landing side-by-side with an open-nosed canopy at about 100ft above the ground. The same turbulence that made my Lotus buck hard, partially collapsed the canopy 30 feet to my right. He lost 50 ft in a split second. My airlocked canopy just kept on its course. Thanks for your innovations Brian! mike Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeeeeeeFly 0 #24 January 29, 2004 Do airlock canopies fly similar to crossbraced canopies? I have only flown cross brace and elliptical, but this post seems very interesting regarding the flight characteristics and performance of these canopies discussed... Also does Big Air plan on developing something along the lines of cross braced? G "The edge ... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who know where it is are those that have gone over" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnischalke 0 #25 January 29, 2004 QuoteWhat makes you think PD copied any designs? I am not saying either PD canopy is a "copy" of the Big Air canopies. I said "seemingly copied." Maybe they had the same designers or they're good designs that everybody uses. Maybe two designers were thinking alike and came up with the best wing independently. Try this: Lay a Lotus on a Sabre2. Check the planforms. Match the endcells and examine the airfoil. Lay a Samurai on a Katana. Check the planforms. Match the endcells and examine the airfoil. The Sabre2 is slightly more elliptical on the trailing edge and has longer lines, but that's the extent of the differences I've seen. mike Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
