SHARKY 0 #1 February 6, 2004 I have asked my rigger to fit a removable deployment system to my Xaos 27 (Extended bridle attatched to my slider) and although she is willing to fit it she has some concerns about the possibility of an entaglement with the HMA (only because they tangle so easily when loose)lines as the slider comes down. My thinking is that before the lines can deploy the excess bridle will be at full stretch above the canopy otherwise the lines will not deploy anyway and that as the slider starts to come down the lines I will have developed some forward movement so that the bag and PC will have started to fly more behind me. There is a slight boubt in my head now but I dont think there should be a problem with entaglement. If any body like Chris from Precision or any other jumpers with knowledge of this would like to add their 2cents I would be happy to hear it.My life is in Xaos!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skygod7777 0 #2 February 6, 2004 i made myself one of these, and your right the bag and pilot chute are behind you all the way down the lines, before it even starts coming down. now here's my next questions, why? just because? i didn't really find it to be a lot different, it felt like it dove a bit more, but that could of just been me. the reason i did it was i saw pd and everyone else did it, so i wanted to see what the big deal was later Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eames 0 #3 February 6, 2004 Early on when I made just the removeable d-bag & PC I had a pretty serious line snag... break... spin... SPIN... chop. But it was completely preventable. I used a snap-shackle (i.e. RSL attachment) to attach a line from my bag to my slider. Well, the snap shackle caught a line. In retrospect I would have used a rapide link even though it would have taken a split-second longer to remove. But the right design of removeable slider/d-bag/PC is more snag resistant and easier to remove than just the d-bag/PC combo alone (because you have to remove and stow the d-bag/PC and then stow your slider, instead of remove the whole thing, shove it in your pocket. Done.) -Jason Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kennetheriksson 0 #4 February 6, 2004 How do you remove the slider? Stay safe! -Kenneth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 4 #5 February 6, 2004 Sonic was the first one that was doing that. The system that he uses (occasionaly) leaves only metal rings (in place of traditional grommets) at the base of your risers after you pull on a central cord to release all the material from the rings. The latest combination systems use a slider such as this. Still, you don't even want to hear about how many chops I have seen due to either system, just the removable slider, or a combination of both. It's simply not worth my effort and the system grates on my nerves. Very, very few competitors actually use these systems, and then most who do only use them on distance runs. Personally, when I bother at all, I simply use a disposable system with an old d-bag, standard non-collapsible PC and bridle. I have never had one that was not recovered. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sdctlc 0 #6 February 6, 2004 I have seen the system that andy Farrington and Luke Akins use at times, (probably fire them off a message at Kapowsin if you want their feedback on the system they use) Here is PD's Site with regard to the RDS system: http://www.performancedesigns.com/hotnews/RDS/rds.htm I am pretty sure that Sonic has a system he developed and jumps. Might want to talk at him as well. Hope that helps..... Scott C."He who Hesitates Shall Inherit the Earth!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SHARKY 0 #7 February 6, 2004 Thanks for the info. What sort of percentage competitors are using RDS on the circuit. Is there any sort of feeling out there as to the level of improvement that this adds to the performance. I guess you're right though, I don't think I want to hear how many chops you have seen. I am being swayed away from getting this at the moment although I suppose its easy enough to go back to the traditional set up if I dont like the feel of it or the messing about to get it off.My life is in Xaos!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #8 February 6, 2004 Aside from possible damage to yourself if you have a problem, you could also damage your canopy. I've seen some line burns across the tail of a canopy using an RDS that was bag/PC shackled to a non-removeable slider. The openings and removal went fine, but the tail needed some new panels after just a few jumps. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 4 #9 February 6, 2004 You might see 25 percent of pro competitors at some meets using some combination of removable system, but that is a high average. I see absolutely no practical use whatsoever for use of a system like this on anything other than the most critical attempt at actually winning a distance meet. Some will argue that that it's also beneficial in the PST speed rounds as well, but then, in my opinion, the extra potential speed afforded might make you .01'ths of a second faster though the course. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eames 0 #10 February 6, 2004 QuoteI've seen some line burns across the tail of a canopy using an RDS that was bag/PC shackled to a non-removeable slider. Yep. That'll happen if you have a single point of attachment to the center of the slider (imagine where that line is when the slider is quartered....). That kind of damage can be prevented by having two points of attachment near the rear grommets, i.e. the line "cascades" from the bag to the slider. QuoteAside from possible damage to yourself if you have a problem.... Yes, you can really damage yourself if you're not careful, especially if you're playing around with a removable slider design. As SkymonkeyONE has alluded, it's not an endeavor to be taken lightly. -Jason Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eames 0 #11 February 6, 2004 QuoteI see absolutely no practical use whatsoever for use of a system like this on anything other than the most critical attempt at actually winning a distance meet.... I use mine for distance events specifically, but I use it throughout most meets 'cause it's a pain in the @$$ to switch back and forth.... And the only practical reason to use the system outside of competition is to get used to the system. ;) Otherwise, why bother? I also try to use it only on jumps entirely dedicated to swooping. I'm sure this has been said before, but it's not a setup that should be used for routine skydives. It's not only impractical, it's dangerous to do so. -Jason Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Treejumps 0 #12 February 6, 2004 I can really tell the diference when I have my bag and PC off. Faster, cleaner flight, and a little more dive. I haven't done the slider yet, but mine stows very tightly and while I can see a minor gain, the real performace comes from removing the bag and pc. I probably won't bother wiht it at all this year because there is a bit more than .01 of a second between me and a medal. Cya. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
prost 0 #13 February 7, 2004 Why not just use a static line set up? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymedic 0 #14 February 8, 2004 static line and high performance canopies dont go hand in hand all that well.... Marc otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
prost 0 #15 February 8, 2004 Why not? Has anyone tried it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eames 0 #16 February 8, 2004 QuoteWhy not? Has anyone tried it? Yeah, it works fine... I know a lot of people that have done it. But it's not practical. You're jumping from a lot different planes, with different pilots and owners.... Not to mention, who's going to drag your crap back in every time? -Jason Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #17 February 9, 2004 QuoteHas anyone tried it? Yes I've seen it done from a tailgate plane. QuoteWhy not? Static line deployments (from side door aircraft - my only experiences with static line) are prone to line twists. Blue ones, IanPerformance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eames 0 #18 February 9, 2004 QuoteStatic line deployments (from side door aircraft - my only experiences with static line) are prone to line twists. The reason student static line is prone to line twists is that students are trying to learn to skydive (and of course we learn to bellyfly first). The bag is peeled off the student's back strait up over the reserve container, knocks 'em in the head, gets routed around an arm, etc.... All you'd have to do is leave facing the other way, almost in a sit, with your back to the relative wind. I've never seen anything but clean deployments this way. But don't try it 'cause I said so. As my friend Will would say "Do not try this at home, batteries not included, void where prohibited, may be illegal in some states." -Jason Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymedic 0 #19 February 9, 2004 the direct bagged static line HP jumps I have seen on vengences, and velocities all ended in line twists....just what i saw over the course of 10 or so jumps...some of them were not cutaway's...but most were. I was not doing the jumping. just the watching and this was out of the side of an Otter. Marc otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eames 0 #20 February 9, 2004 How were they exiting? -Jason Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymedic 0 #21 February 10, 2004 boxman...or close to it... Marc otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cobaltdan 0 #22 February 10, 2004 you cant camera geek with aerobatic exits if your are goint to static line. :) swoopa stars... dan<><>Daniel Preston <><> atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
prost 0 #23 February 10, 2004 I think this would be the major reason that no one will look into getting rid of the bag and pilot chute by using a static line. One other problem I did think of was that you could not stage opening hieghts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
