Velo openings pissin me off

[Velopilot 0]

Somebody HELP!!!! My velocity 96 openings are unpredictable and all over the place. Its pissing me off. Here are the facts. Velo 96 in a Javelin Odyssey. Wing loaded at 2.2 to 1. My packing is very neat. I flake the canopy out and clear the stabilizers. I don't stuff the nose into my pact job. My lines can't get any tighter. My line stows are about an inch and a quarter to inch and a half. I have about 18 inches of line left when I put the bag in the container. My risers and d-bag came standard with the container. F-111 pilot chute.
Here's the problem. I know that it is normal for the canopy to search, seek, and dance on opening but this is outrageous. I read all about people who have great openings on this site and I dont see how. My body positioning at pull time is even throughout the entire pull sequence. I dont have one shoulder lower or higher than the other. My weight distribution in the harness is totally even. If the canopy starts to open one way or the other, depending on the intensity of the seek/search/surge/dance/dive, I apply correct pressure on the opposite rear riser and correct weight shift in the harness. Sometimes the canopy just doesnt care and continues to do its own thing. I've done compete 360's during the snivel. Thats not a 360 snap turn right as the canopy is completing pressurization. Thats a 360 with the slider all the way up to 1/4 way down during the snivel. Oh its quite fun and interesting but I dont care for it cause I dont want line twists. The canopy spun up on me twice when I first had it. Once at terminal and once on a hop and pop. I called PD and talked with Ian BoBo for 30 minutes. He and I are have the same build, same weight, same wingloading, same canopy. He suggested a smaller slider like the factory team uses and also to send my canopy in to see if it was out of trim. The end result was a new smaller slider and a new line set. No line twists since but the canopy still does whatever it wants on opening. Seems like my best openings are when I trash pack it. Oh yea, when I watch the canopy open it always starts out on heading and there is never a single twist to begin with. So I take it that eliminates the bag spinning off my back on deployment.
So my overall thoughts of PD's Velocity: Once its fully inflated, its the greatest thing man has invented since the invention of the wheel. Please give me your thoughts about my problem. Thanks

[OzoneJunkie 0]

I psycho pack my velo 103, and, for me, it helps tame the openings. It still searches a bit, but not as much as my normal pro pack.

[Velopilot 0]

Im willing to try anything. Have you experienced anything Im talking about

[garyharbird 0]

Hey man
I jump a velo 84 loaded at 2.3.
All I do is count the nose clear the stablizers and and the tail, don't touch anything else, quarter the slider and leave the nose hanging, only put about 3 rolls in the tail or sometimes you get funky trap door, kinda like a tandem.
Also the faster you are going the better it opens.
I do a lot of tandem video and would slow right down just before pulling, and i would get openings very similar to yours, then my friend Ian Drennan said he had been having great opening from going faster, so i tryed and my openings are 100% better, I have pulled as soon as 2 seconds from getting off my head, lots of speed vertically and also alot of forward speed, but they are the best openings i've had.
Hope this is usefull.
Later Gary Harbird

[ccowden 0]

Quote

If the canopy starts to open one way or the other, depending on the intensity of the seek/search/surge/dance/dive, I apply correct pressure on the opposite rear riser and correct weight shift in the harness. Sometimes the canopy just doesnt care and continues to do its own thing.

I think this is most of your problem. JUST LET IT DO IT'S THING. You are always going to have the searching characteristic with a Velocity, but that doesn't mean it's going to open off heading. It is just how they open. If you just stay still and let it do it's thing, the openings will come out generally on heading and be quite smooth. It just takes a little getting used to this type of opening. I tried doing minor corrections, much like you are describing, on my first few openings on my Velocity and it really could get ugly and seemed to make it worse. Once I got the advice to just let it do it's thing and just hang still, the openings were great. I now don't touch the risers until it is open.

It is a differently opening canopy for sure, but letting it go about it's bussiness is key. It will start to snivel, turn 90 and look like it is gonna go one way then turn the other way and look like it is going to take you for a ride. But if you just let it go, it will just search around and open quite nicely within 45 degrees of heading most of the time.

Beyond that, my next suggestion would be to send it back to PD for them to look at. Velocities are not known for problematic openings, and there could always be something off with yours like trim. But I thinl if you saty still in the harness and don't touch your risers, you will find it will open nicely.

[skyjuggler 0]

Okay cool, something I can definately help with as all I have packed really for the last 6 months are velocities!!!!!

Here are my experiences. I have always been really neat, but learnt loads about packing since starting packing the velo's, and know that some people can pack them really well, have them look like shite, and they open really well. But I will share what I do, and it definately works.

I have found the oppposite to what some people above have mentioned. The Velocity does not like a faster speed deployment. This may depend on an individual's set up, I can find out my employers' pilot chute sizes if this helps you.
Their setups also include 6 stows, each about 2 inches long (which is quite big in my opinion) and I leave quite a bot of slack so that the bag clears the burbble. This is important as the first stow, with only a little slack left, can cause the bag to tug / pull and set the whole process squew wiff from the start.
As far as the flake and shake stuff, I am real anal and tend to iron the canopy much to most people's amusement! I don't do anything to the nose apart from just spread the middle cell. By this I mean the middle of the tri-cell stays in the middle and the other parts spread to the left and right over the other cells. I have also rolled 3 and 3 leaving the middle cell alone, but I find you have to be very careful to maintain equal folds, particularly the exposure down next to the middle cell, otherwise if one side opens faster it will take off that way. Even if it opens fine, it just tends to take a little longer, and has no other significant benefit from spreading the middle cell. I think the PD swoop boys roll 3 and 3, and so does one of my less frequent customers, but that's their choiceThe other important thing to do is the slider. Make sure when you quater it you push it right down to the bottom. I make sure it is even in the side quaters, and then make sure that it is just barely showing out the front near the nose. Definately not pulled right out or inside the pack job.
As far as the flaking is concerned, I leave everything out, and use the stitching of the canopy as fold marks and visual checks for symmetry. I pull the slider up and out of the way and then clear the material for the A, B lines and look inside the canopy for the double sitiching to see that it sis even. Then where lines are stitched I push down on, which is basically adding tension the same way which the canopy is pulled. All the flakes are left out, so the folds are made and left facing backwards towards your legs. I wrap nothing in. Basically it looks like a reserve pack job.
After I bag it, when I do the stows, I look for the cascades and stitching for references to know that the lines are equal length. I particularly think this is helpful before you reach the cascades.

For all those who say long winded, yeah it is, but I have happy customers.
There are definately people who pack really really good, and super fast. I pack for my mates and so try always to do a really good job, and am getting slowly faster. So basically I am sure others might disagree, but I did pack alot of velocities the last 6 months. If you need any more details PM me. I will try to explain it better if there are any points you might need more detail.

[exwhuffo 0]

I experienced the same thing. i just roll the tail 3 times and quarter the slider. i also jump camera.
the other big thing is i dont fight it on opening at all. stay still and symetrical in the harness and all will be well. took me about 150 jumps to do that. i literally had to stare at the horizon and not look up until it was open. sitting up in the harness as soon as i felt it off my back really helps aswell.

[Velopilot 0]

Im appreciating all the insite. Anybody else wanna say anything. It'll probably be helpful. Thanks

[AggieDave 6]

Obviously I haven't jumped one, but a jumper at my DZ had weird problems with his Velo's openings as well.

He's been flying heavily loaded X-braced for a few years, so he knows what he's doing with that, 3000 jumps, so its not body position and he would pack it damn near perfect.

It would still open very oddly and never on heading.

After chatting with PD about it back and forth for a while, he sent it back to get test jumped. PD said that there was something wrong, they'll fix it.

They couldn't figure out how to fix it, so they made him a new one which opens nicely and on heading for him.

Just something to think about, since if something is off a cm with a canopy like that, you don't know how it may react.

Good luck!

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[koz2000 1]

I've owned four velos and jumped nine others and every one had opening "issues." I found it best to hold on near your three-rings and allow yourself to follow the canopy.

______________________________________________
- Does this small canopy make my balls look big? - J. Hayes -

[SkySlut 0]

I agree. When I first started jumping them, I used to fight the openings...now I just sit back and let it do its thing and go with it. It can be a bit twitchy if you try to fight it...too much input can make it worse.

I have also found that using smaller stows helped my out a ton. I used to get spinners all the time. I now use 1 inch stows, double stowed (including the locking stows) with large rubber bands. Ive found that if you have larger stows with velocities (at least from my experience) the bag can deploy funny...causing twists.

Doing these two things have sorted me out in a HUGE way. Havent had a problem since.

[PhreeZone 20]

Have you tried freestowing the Velocity yet?

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[SkySlut 0]

Nope...I have read that people are doing it...but hey, If it aint broke...why fix it??? Are you doing the two locking stows and freestowing the rest???

[PhreeZone 20]

I've never jumped a Velo (this summer probally will) but I've started doing that on the rest of my canopies and even some canopies I pack for others and it seems to work really good. You need to know how the proper way to do it is, but I've noticed my openings are the same with or with out the stows and that it eliminates the possibility for the bag to dance or wiggle on getting to line strech.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[SkySlut 0]

Yeah, that is why I started doing the shorter stows...keeps the bag from dancing...same concept and same results I am sure...I just dont know how comfortable I am doing that quite yet. I know that some people on my DZ do that for hop n hooks, although one time the pilot forgot to let him out at 4 grand and he took the thing all the way up and wasnt too excited about having a terminal opening with a freestowed canopy...so he did a crosscountry.

Havent tried it.

[jumperconway 0]

After a conversation with Chuck Blue(skymonkey 1), I started rolling 4 and 4 tight on my Xaos 27 and have had virtually all on heading openings ever since with no "searching". Also, watch the horizon, not the canopy! Also after giving the canopy a good shake, all I do is put the "D's" in the middle pull the stabilisers in and pull up the tail and violla, nice openings!

[webracer 0]

redoing the brake settings (fingertraps for setting the brakes packing), should help. I tested a velo with them set 2-4" deeper, and it searched less. Give 2" a try, it's cheap and fast. See if it helps.

Troy

I am now free to exercise my downward mobility.

[twnsnd 1]

Alot of excellent info has been put out here. I think the three items I would check are control line length, stows, and the tail. My fx used to have problems because I was rolling the tail. I no longer roll the tail at all. I just pull the tail together and my openings improved vastly. I also double stow with large bands.

-We are the Swoophaters. We have travelled back in time to hate on your swoops.-

[skoty 0]

Pay attention to the nose. Make sure it is symetrical, leave it out, no rolling or folding. Quater the slider nicely. Do not worry about anything else much. Then when it comes to rolling the tail. Do not rolle it to the top. Just one or two rolls at the bottom of the tail, leave the top {close to the slider} open.
It works for me and my friends and the openings are sweet and on-heading

[jjudd 0]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHIqZ6c3wMg

Anyone ever get slammed like this on their velo here? Have about 200 jumps on a xaos 98 never a hard opening and jump a buddys velo 96 to see how it compares, wham. still hurting now. We swapped risers/dbags,pilotchutes all comparably the same size. The rsl hook up was opposite riser thats what came loose in the jump from where it was stowed. pitched at 46 secondsish in the video and opened very fast there after. Any thoughts what caused it.


Packed it like normal. brakes stowed, Counted nose, flaked, quartered slider, wrapped tail 4 times or so and in the bag she went. Definetly pitched pretty shortly after tracking expecting it to maybe steer around a bit but if the opinion is openings at faster are better wtf? shoulda hop n poped first i guess

[jdfreefly 1]

yes, more than once.

No sir, I don't like it.

Methane Freefly - got stink?

[NWPoul 1]

It seems, tha your RSL was unplugged, not just unstowed (if it meant the same by unstowing - than sorry, english isn't my natural languege) and start flapping around at ~0:29 sec
Don't shure if it can be related to hard opening but it defenetly not good any way, be careful;)

Why drink and drive, if you can smoke and fly?

[jumpsalot-2 3]

Quote

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHIqZ6c3wMg

Anyone ever get slammed like this on their velo here? Have about 200 jumps on a xaos 98 never a hard opening and jump a buddys velo 96 to see how it compares, wham. still hurting now. We swapped risers/dbags,pilotchutes all comparably the same size. The rsl hook up was opposite riser thats what came loose in the jump from where it was stowed. pitched at 46 secondsish in the video and opened very fast there after. Any thoughts what caused it.


Packed it like normal. brakes stowed, Counted nose, flaked, quartered slider, wrapped tail 4 times or so and in the bag she went. Definetly pitched pretty shortly after tracking expecting it to maybe steer around a bit but if the opinion is openings at faster are better wtf? shoulda hop n poped first i guess

Quote

At 42 secs. you were still facing your buddy. At 46 secs. your canopy was open.......Doesn't seem like enough time to slow down for opening.

Life is short ... jump often.

[wildcard451 0]

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At 42 secs. you were still facing your buddy. At 46 secs. your canopy was open.......Doesn't seem like enough time to slow down for opening.

I was thinking the same thing when I counted. I have had one instacanopy on my 111 when I had it, with no rhyme nor reason. I've had a few "positive" openings on my 103 with the RDS on, but I can attribute those to some sloppy packing.

[AndyMan 7]

You need to spend significantly more time slowing down after freefly speeds.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.