Inverted Canopy Hookup - what did i do wrong

[pds 0]

OK OK OK OK!

I feel the love. A few hours with a rigger is next. Trust me, I intend to be around long enough to be able to give advice.

I know I screwed up in more than one way. I lived, this time, and learnded a lesson. I think the reason I posted is to keep me honest with me. does that make sense?

Blue Skies,
Sky

namaste, motherfucker.

[Michele 1]

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I know I screwed up in more than one way. I lived, this time, and learnded a lesson. I think the reason I posted is to keep me honest with me. does that make sense?

Absolutely. I totally understand.

Ever heard the phrase "before you empty the luck bucket, better get the skill bucket full'? We are at the stage where we really need to make sure the skill bucket gets as full as it can be before jumping again.

I've had my landing "luck" bucket overturned. As a consequence, I am taking the canopy control class. I need to learn skills now, not just play. Playing is good, but that will come later. For now, it's all about filling up the right bucket....

You're on the right track.
Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[wrightskyguy 1]

If you did a line check when you packed (as you should do every time) there is no possible way for this to happen. It sounds to me like you don't know what you're looking at and should get further instruction (if you recieved any before) from someone that knows how a canopy is built and packed. You scare me!

John Wright

World's most beloved skydiver

[AggieDave 6]

What could do some good, is to get someone to hang a canopy up for you, while its attatched to a rig, and to point out all the line groups, cascades, etc. Then have you start packing it, when you have it in your hands/over the shoulder and are straightening the lines, have that person show you the groups again, and in relation to the nose/tail/stabilizers so you get a good understanding on how everything works.

Knowledge is power and in this sport, ignorance isn't bliss, its death.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[sluggo 0]

I've seen people do this before, and don't want to do it my self. Have a rigger check it after you hook it up. This will be funnier around the fire with a beer in your hand.

[riggerrob 643]

What do you mean by "slinks don't require refresher training?" There are still plenty of riggers who have never installed their first set of slinks.
P.D. Slinks have only been on the market 2 or 3 years. There are still a few dropzones so far back in the hills that have never seen this exotic, un-proven, bizarre, risky, Floridian technology. You know those DZs that made snide comments about "plastic parachutes" made of ZP fabric, believe that "rounds are sound" and where only sissies and students wear AADs. These are the same DZs that only let their students jump with static-lines.
The biggest fish from the tiniest ponds are the ones that need to attend PIA Syposia the most.

[Hooknswoop 19]

I mean that a rigger shouldn't have to go to Master Rigger/DPRE and get refresher training on how to install Slinks. This rigger got them second hand and installed them incorrectly without the instructions. He should have gotten the instructions and followed them.

Refresher training would be a good idea if a rigger hadn't practiced his trade in several years and wanted to get up to speed on the newest gear and techniques and have a current and knowledgable pair of eyes back him up and offer tips on several re-packs until they were back in the groove.

If I haven't sewn a patch in a while, I look over my instructions for the task, I don't go seek refresher training.

I think we may be thinking of refresher training differently. If a non-rigger had installed them incorrectly, would you recommend they go get refresher training?

Hook

[Chief 0]

Hi: I had hooked up canopies that were packed in the D bags numerous times. I always had them double checked, just to make sure they were correct. You guessed it; one time in a hurry, I hooked up a canopy just like all the other times, no safety check. Nice sky dive -celebrating the video guys 600th jump of the year, broke, tracked, pulled. Oops, canopy was flying backwards. Having mentally prepared for this numerous times, I made the decision to land backwards. All was well. Lesson learned = Always get a safety check.
"Life is the only classroom with the test first and the lesson last" Stay Safe

[DJL 235]

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Having mentally prepared for this numerous times...

Hey Cheif, Sorry if I'm overstepping myself but don't you think that rather than "mentally" prepare for a canopy hooked up backwards, you can take measures to not fly backwards in the first place. Yes, I mean go into a headstand. This is obviously the best way to avoid the dangers of backwards flight. It's not like you're going to stand up the landing anyway, in fact, now you've already acheived a safe 180 degrees, of the somersault you will inevitably go into. Try it next time. Flying backwards is just dumb.

Edit: See following comments and precautions, yes, this is humor.

-Doug

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[Sonic 0]

Or put a 180 twist in the risers, and hold it with one hand with the toggles in the other.

-----------------------------------
It's like something out of that twilighty show about that zone

[diverdriver 6]

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Yes, I mean go into a headstand. This is obviously the best way to avoid the dangers of backwards flight.

Unless I'm reading this wrong I would NOT recommend doing this. Doing a flip while under canopy will only put your feet near your lines. We had a fatalitiy at SDC due to this July 4th, 1998. A visiting jumper flipped upside down while under canopy and got his foot caught in the lines causing a spin that he did not get out of before hitting the ground head first.

Chris Schindler

[nacmacfeegle 0]

"Unless I'm reading this wrong I would NOT recommend doing this"

Chris, I think the original poster may have said this a little tongue in cheek.....

--------------------

He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[diverdriver 6]

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"Unless I'm reading this wrong I would NOT recommend doing this"

Chris, I think the original poster may have said this a little tongue in cheek.....

Ahhhhhh.....ok. I forgot I was in a topical forum. Thanks.

[JackR 0]

Glad to see that you got the advice you were looking for. I also hope that there are about 50 other jumpers with nearly the same experience that you have who are thinking twice about packing and hooking up a canopy without checking with their rigger.

I've said it before and I'll say many more times: All riggers are not made alike.

Everyone is seeing parts of that as this thread develops. I just had a customer ask me if he could watch me assemble and pack his reserve. I didn't think anything of it. Well, I was thinking, "Dear God, don't let me f**k up." A couple weeks later I was brushing up on my rigging by re-reading some of my packing manuals. In that I found advice that Velocity Sports (others may as well. This was just the one I was reading) recommends that you find a rigger who will let you watch the repack. If a rigger won't, take it to a rigger who will.

Rigging and repacking a reserve is not magic. It isn't even a mystery. If your rigger truly loves parachutes, packing, repairing and even designing parachutes, they will welcome the opportunity to talk about the process to you while you watch. A case of "Rigging Fluid" (That's beer to most skydivers.) will help soften the request. (Maybe you should make sure the reserve is packed before opening the first bottle.)

PDS, tell the story, have a rigger or packer show you a 4-line check, keep your ears open and you mouth shut, and enjoy the sport.

(Don't fret the 3 mals in 36 jumps. My third was jump number 27. My odds have greatly increased since I started packing for myself.)

-Jack
D-20992, Senior Rigger
mailto:skyjack@airforce.net

Packin' Jack
42nd Lost Prairie: The Ultimate Answer to Life, the Universe, and Skydiving
25 Jul - 3 Aug 2009
2007 photos: http://www.skydive.com/prairie/pages/prairie.htm

[puffdaddy 0]

Just my 2cents worth. You recently had the unfortunate experience of having a buddy go in. My condolences to all. If I look at this incident, your three cut-aways in 36 jumps, a DZ that allowed a low-time jumper to assemble a main with no supervision. I start to see a pattern developing, that is unfortunately not a good one. IMHO I will start to review some of the safety aspects there before someone else gets hurt.

I do not agrre with you that your last cut-away is your fault, yes you did assemble the rig but that should have been done under supervision and checked, before the main was repacked.

-" In skydiving you start with bag full of luck and a empty bag of experience, the trick is to fill the bag of experience before the bag of luck runs out. "-

" You have never lived until you've almost died, and for those who has experienced it, life has a flavour the protected would never understand"

[wildblue 7]

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I do not agrre with you that your last cut-away is your fault, yes you did assemble the rig but that should have been done under supervision and checked, before the main was repacked.

Repeat after me: "I am responsible for myself and my actions"

He assumed he knew what he was doing, and didn't ask for help.

it's like incest - you're substituting convenience for quality

[wmw999 2,485]

That is absolutely true. But if the senior people from his DZ are listening, side two is:

Someone inexperienced, who was going through a very rough experience, was doing something that can be error-prone. Might be a good time to watch and make sure it's OK.

It's not their responsibility. But it's what responsible folks are likely to do...

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[wildblue 7]

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But if the senior people from his DZ are listening, side two is

I don't think this happened at his 'home' DZ. So the DZ he was visiting may just have assumed he knew what he was doing, especially after he didn't ask. And they may not have known about the rough time he was having.
Otherwise, I completely agree with you about watching out for inexperienced jumpers trying to do too much.

it's like incest - you're substituting convenience for quality

[Chivo 0]

Well said. I agree, and thought of this before but didn't know how to express it in a constructive manner. 3 cutaways in 36 jumps... that's about a 8.3% failure rate. IMHO, this is not an acceptable rate. If it continues, he might get seriously injured or worse.

Everybody should learn from this experience. Its not about pointing fingers, but about finding a solution. Every DZ should try to monitor people that recently became off-student status. We all have to take care of one another (I know it is easier said than done). And the students should ask for supervision when they're doing something for the first time (and maybe for second and third times too).

Have the proper respect for the sport, and be safe.

~Chivo

[darkvapor 0]

>>I'll say it again: Do not pack a canopy (that you >>just hooked up) before checking it's connected >>correctly!

I totally agree. However, shouldn't it be obvious that *something* is wrong during packing? When you first pick up the canopy to start packing, the nose would be pointing away from you, instead of towards you. Correct? To me, it would seem like an obvious mistake that should be noticeable during the packing process. Even if you miss the nose being on the wrong side of the canopy, there would be twists in your lines when you lay the canopy down (or have it over your shoulder). I usually look behind me and check the lines regularly to make sure they are all straight and not getting away from me.

I don't think this type of error is really something that can be missed (but it obviously is, since I have heard of many many occurances of this happening). Am I wrong to assume that this type of mistake is something than you can catch in packing? (Not that there is any excuse not to do a proper inspection before packing).

[HeatherB 0]

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I don't think this type of error is really something that can be missed (but it obviously is, since I have heard of many many occurances of this happening).

I've heard plenty of stories about people chopping or landing canopies that are hooked up backwards, but all the stories I've ever heard involved the jumpers not taking a canopy out of its D-bag before hooking it up to a new rig. They just hooked up the risers and placed the D-bag with the canopy in it into the rig.

I would imagine (and hope in a way) that almost all "backwards flying canopies" result from that scenario.

blue skies,
Heather

[Spy38W 0]

Something that I did was marking the right riser. Not something to rely on, because it can still get twisted or something, but is nice to use as a double check.

--
Hook high, flare on time

[darkwing 5]

I reviewed the responses above, and noticed that no one mentioned the issue of "why cut away from a fully open main"? In my 3 decades in the sport I've always been amazed at the willingness of skydivers at all levels to give up a perfectly functioning canopy. Now if there were twists that interfered with steering line function, that is different....

-- Jeff
My Skydiving History

[AggieDave 6]

Sure, you may have a fully opened and flying main, that is flying backwards. I have no doubt that you could land your Spectre 190 backwards, I bet I could do it too, but at the wingloadings that a lot of people jump, that could result in a helicopter ride to the hospital.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[darkvapor 0]

Well, it was ingrained in us in the FJC. If there is any doubt in your ability to land your main, then go to your reserve. I think if people get into the mentality that they should land their main and save 50$ on a repack, then a lot more people are going to get hurt. And its always better to get rid of a questionable main then find yourself in an irrecoverable situation where injury is likely. And as AggieDave said, most people are flying canopies near the edge of their abilities. I think trying to land a canopy backwards is just asking for injuries. But that is just from my newbie perspective.