cheneyneel 0 #1 March 16, 2004 Guys I searched through the post already and could not get an answer because people kept getting off topic.. But I have a friend that is wanting to buy a Nitron (150)at 1.1:1 and I seem to believe that it could be a little iffy because of underloading a small inlet nose canopy.. (her skill is not the issue, I am asking advice about wing loading).. Can underloading an eliptical be an unstable canopy in more situations than not.. I would like to see her load a Sabre at more of 1.4:1 than the REALLY GREAT deal she is getting on this canopy but I dont have a realy strong argument either for or against her under this canopy except windloading and my arguement for wingloading period is a little weak.. Any good info out there? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yardhippie 0 #2 March 16, 2004 im not sure about underloading, but the Nitron (precision) and Nitro (HiPer) fly big. and even w/ my 120 loaded at 1.6 has a lot of versitility for slow straight in approaches. I have seen them flown at 1.1 or ther abouts and never saw any perfomance issues. Mind you I was not the pilot, so I cannot offer any perfomance stats. I hope this helps. At least a little. Goddam dirty hippies piss me off! ~GFD "What do I get for closing your rig?" ~ me "Anything you want." ~ female skydiver Mohoso Rodriguez #865 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 273 #3 March 16, 2004 Disclaimer - I haven't jumped a Nitron or a Nitro at any wingloading. That said, Beezy from HiPerUSA sent me a Nitro 150 demo (that I would load at less than 1.1) to check out knowing full well what my wingloading would be on it. For a variety of reasons I didn't get to put any jumps on it, but I'd think that if he thought I'd be safe under it at that wingloading your friend probably would be too. I'd suggest she put a jump or two in good conditions on the one she's looking at and decide for herself. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fool 0 #4 March 16, 2004 It might be comparing apples to oranges, but that's about where I'm loading my stiletto, and I've never had an issue with it... end cells sometimes need to be opened with a flight control check, but not a big deal at all. S.E.X. party #1 "Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "f*#k, what a ride". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johnny1488 1 #5 March 16, 2004 As far as I know there is only one elliptical on the market that shoudn't be loaded below 1.2 and it has 2 tilted squares on it. Johnny --"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!" Mike Rome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TALONSKY 0 #6 March 16, 2004 I personally would not under load any eliptical canopy that has a formed nose. I am not sure if the Nitron has a preformed nose but I know the Crossfire 1 and Crossfire 2 do. Kirk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #7 March 16, 2004 QuoteBut I have a friend that is wanting to buy a Nitron (150)at 1.1:1 and I seem to believe that it could be a little iffy because of underloading a small inlet nose canopy.. No reason whatsoever. It will function as well as any other. Even crosebraced designs will open and fly at light wingloadings, they just do not use the advantages of the crossbracing.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #8 March 16, 2004 Quotebut the Nitron (precision) and Nitro (HiPer) fly big. Please don't take this personaly but I am very tired of hearing this "flys big" statement. Say "flys docile compared to canopy "X" at the same wingloading" if you must, but this "flys big" garbage is just beging to get someone hure. People who don't know any better hear this and then think it's safe to jump at a wingloading higher than they would on a different design. They are doing nothing for them selves but increasing their chance of getting broken or dead.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #9 March 16, 2004 QuoteI personally would not under load any eliptical canopy that has a formed nose. Why? QuoteI am not sure if the Nitron has a preformed nose but I know the Crossfire 1 and Crossfire 2 do. It does. A "formed" nose that is. I'll assume the "preformed" was a typo?---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #10 March 16, 2004 and what do you think of a stiletto 170 loaded at .75 for a 50 jumps jumper ??? a friend of mine wants to buy it, I try to discourage him and the seller... but once he has the money he'll buy itscissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kaerock 1 #11 March 16, 2004 At that wing-loading the Stiletto would be very docile, I wouldn't have a problem with the jumper using that canopy if they jumper showed they had good judgment and reflexes. This includes standing up every landing, knowing how to do flat-turns and relatively decent accuracy...big emphasis consistency. -Rory Quoteand what do you think of a stiletto 170 loaded at .75 for a 50 jumps jumper ??? a friend of mine wants to buy it, I try to discourage him and the seller... but once he has the money he'll buy it You be the king and I'll overthrow your government. --KRS-ONE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TALONSKY 0 #12 March 16, 2004 This is my own opinion, and only based on that. On a canopy with a formed nose (yes the preformed was a misspelling) I would think that the nose would have the least amount of internal pressure. Going with that idea, I would think that the less you wing load a formed nose canopy the less internal pressure the nose would have and would make it more susceptible to collapsing. Kirk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 4 #13 March 16, 2004 Your logic is flawed. Think about paragliders for a moment. Incredibly large, very elliptical, formed/airlocked/braced noses, very lightly loaded. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #14 March 16, 2004 QuoteYour logic is flawed. Think about paragliders for a moment. Incredibly large, very elliptical, formed/airlocked/braced noses, very lightly loaded. ok, but Quotemore susceptible to collapsing. is quite right too... collapses on paragliders are usually no big deal, they are made to fly lightly loaded, and pilots are trained to deal with cells closing... And even with 1/3 closed you still have more surface flying than most parachutes...scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #15 March 16, 2004 My vote on a lightly loaded elliptical canopy would be for the Diablo. Very capable and amazing canopy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #16 March 16, 2004 Does aerodyne even still make the diablo? It's not on their website. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TALONSKY 0 #17 March 16, 2004 Well, I know I have no data to back my opinion. That why I stated, " I personally would not under load a canopy with a formed nose". For me some things come down to how I personally feel about it and I would never fly a Crossfire at a 1 to 1 wingloading because of how closed of the nose is. I am quite sure there are people out there that have and it works fine for them, but I think it is a design aspect that should be considered when looking a wing loading lightly. Kirk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cheneyneel 0 #18 March 16, 2004 Hey SKymonkeyONE.. So you are saying that even though as lightly loaded that the canopy is not subjected more to collapsing in turbulent conditions than anyother square types of canopies or elipticals???? I know that there is an argument that states that lightly loaded canopies feel more turbulence anyways so ......... Sooo... SHould someone load a eliptical at 1.1:1 or should they load a square at 1.4:1.. The issue that I am trying to help my friend with is that she is getting a great deal with the eliptical canopy... WHich in my first post I said (Nitron) but I found that it is a NITRO instead...( I know that is doesnt make alot of difference really) but I seem to be getting conflicting theories from different people..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #19 March 16, 2004 ***a great deal with the eliptical canopy ===================================== This line seems to come up alot with people asking if this canopy or that is good. A great deal is only great if it's the product you want at a price you are happy with. If your friend is ready to jump a Sabre at 1.4, does she really think she'll be happy with a Nitron at 1.1? Just because it's elliptical doesn't mean that it will be faster or more fun than a square. In this case I think it would be quite the opposite. It will be slow and floaty, and have poor penetration into the wind. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
andrewstewart 0 #20 March 16, 2004 QuoteGuys I searched through the post already and could not get an answer because people kept getting off topic.. But I have a friend that is wanting to buy a Nitron (150)at 1.1:1 and I seem to believe that it could be a little iffy because of underloading a small inlet nose canopy.. (her skill is not the issue, I am asking advice about wing loading).. Can underloading an eliptical be an unstable canopy in more situations than not.. I would like to see her load a Sabre at more of 1.4:1 than the REALLY GREAT deal she is getting on this canopy but I dont have a realy strong argument either for or against her under this canopy except windloading and my arguement for wingloading period is a little weak.. Any good info out there? My Cobat at 1.33 feels a little underloaded to me. I get end cell closure on opening fairly regularly. My 2 cents. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #21 March 16, 2004 QuoteGoing with that idea, I would think that the less you wing load a formed nose canopy the less internal pressure the nose would have and would make it more susceptible to collapsing. The internal air pressure in a canopy is more a function of the ram air speed at the nose. The more weight unde a canopy the faster it is pulled through the air, the higher the internal pressure is. A formed nose is to provide a clean(er) leading edge to a wing, there by maintaing lift across a longer crosection of the airfoil. A smaller formed nose inlet may actualy have a small benifit to maintaining internal pressure in a colapse situation as it would provide a restricted path for air to exit the canopy IF the external pressure for some reason became lower than the internal. Very slight effect. By your logic airlocks are bad if lightly loaded.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
b1jercat 0 #22 March 16, 2004 Quote Well, I know I have no data to back my opinion. That why I stated, " I personally would not under load a canopy with a formed nose". For me some things come down to how I personally feel about it and I would never fly a Crossfire at a 1 to 1 wingloading because of how closed of the nose is. I am quite sure there are people out there that have and it works fine for them, but I think it is a design aspect that should be considered when looking a wing loading lightly. Recommended wing loading on the crossfire 2 is 1.4-2.1 thats from Icarus. blues jerry Kirk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yardhippie 0 #23 March 17, 2004 QuoteQuotebut the Nitron (precision) and Nitro (HiPer) fly big. Please don't take this personaly but I am very tired of hearing this "flys big" statement. Say "flys docile compared to canopy "X" at the same wingloading" if you must, but this "flys big" garbage is just beging to get someone hure. People who don't know any better hear this and then think it's safe to jump at a wingloading higher than they would on a different design. They are doing nothing for them selves but increasing their chance of getting broken or dead. agreed. very good point. I used that phrase, b/c it ment something to me, but I did leave out some qualifying statements. My experience: I was jumping a cobalt 135. and then jumped the Nitro 135. The Nitro in comparison to the Cobalt (mind you different designs) flew at a much more docile level. Requiring larger, more drastic inputs to achieve similar results. It was definitely not the the performance level I was looking for. So I went to the 120. Still not the performer the Cobalt is, but I liked the openings better, recover arc, and the amount of flair at the bottom end. Hope that helps and clarifies.Goddam dirty hippies piss me off! ~GFD "What do I get for closing your rig?" ~ me "Anything you want." ~ female skydiver Mohoso Rodriguez #865 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
twnsnd 1 #24 March 17, 2004 Quote I would like to see her load a Sabre at more of 1.4:1 than the REALLY GREAT deal she is getting on this canopy Not a great deal. Underloading an eliptical or crossbraced canopy is a waste of not only money, but time. It's not going to do what it's designed to do, so you're not learning anything. You might as well be jumping something cheap and square. Forget about stability and turbulence, it's just a waste! -We are the Swoophaters. We have travelled back in time to hate on your swoops.- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RMURRAY 1 #25 March 17, 2004 JumpShack is recommending a wing loading of less than 1:1 for the Firebolt for jumps with lower jump numbers.... rm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
