bobsled92 0 #1 March 23, 2004 Comp Cobalt 150-170? I have limited jumps on the Cobalt that I enjoyed every jump. I am healing from a work injury(shoulder) and will be jumping my 1.4 loaded 170 Comp Cobalt. Just wanted to get feed back for landind characteristics from anyone who HAS experience in this specific canopy. (Not any other canopy please)_______________________________ If I could be a Super Hero, I chose to be: "GRANT-A-CLAUS". and work 365 days a Year. http://www.hangout.no/speednews/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bobsled92 0 #2 March 23, 2004 variety of size..... I can still use that input, thanks._______________________________ If I could be a Super Hero, I chose to be: "GRANT-A-CLAUS". and work 365 days a Year. http://www.hangout.no/speednews/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kansasskydiver 0 #3 March 23, 2004 I wrote a review of my demo comp cobalt let me find the post and you can read what myself and many others thought of it. Overal, I was NOT very impressed in the end Comp Cobalt 2 week review<--- See look, pink dolphins DO exist! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VectorBoy 0 #4 March 23, 2004 I have been led to believe that the comp version had a softer opening and the ability to dive more but landed the same. I don't believe the discription "flys bigger" applied to the flare. I'm having mine H-moded so it will be a while before I can compare it to its old self. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kansasskydiver 0 #5 March 23, 2004 Quote I have been led to believe that the comp version had a softer opening and the ability to dive more but landed the same. I don't believe the discription "flys bigger" applied to the flare. I'm having mine H-moded so it will be a while before I can compare it to its old self. If it's supposed to open softer then I would have hated to have seen what a normal one opens like! And no the flies bigger refers to the fact that a 150 isn't actually a 150. It's a 164 or something like that. Just remember, dump in a track (yeah right) buy a smaller pc (yeah whatever) and don't grab yoru rear risers (uh huh) so why do I have to modify how I skydive for one canopy that isn't all that? I bought a Xfire2, don't have to dump in a track, didn't have to modify my OEM pc and can grab the f*ck out of my risers and it stills opens better than that thing had ever dreamed of<--- See look, pink dolphins DO exist! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ramon 0 #6 March 23, 2004 For what its worth. I jump a comp cobalt 105 loaded at 2.1. I already had a cazer pilot chute (which is what is recommended). I take 3-4 inch line bites which is what the old Alpha manual recommended and I use small rubber bands (also recommended). My D bag is sized for a 150 so the canopy is loose in it (can cause harder openings) I have had like 2 hard openings out of 300 jumps and both I had not taken the time to slow down from a freefly. Typically my canopy opens more slowly than I want and I try to speed it up. I dump in a track all the time or not, it does not matter on my canopy. I have light riser pressure, flat glide and can slow the canopy down fairly well considering it is a non cross braced parachute loaded so high. I have jumped a 135 and a 120 with no problems what so ever except I wanted a little more speed. Bloo skies Ramon"Revolution is an abrupt change in the form of misgovernment.", Ambrose Bierce. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kansasskydiver 0 #7 March 23, 2004 QuoteFor what its worth. I jump a comp cobalt 105 loaded at 2.1. I already had a cazer pilot chute (which is what is recommended). I take 3-4 inch line bites which is what the old Alpha manual recommended and I use small rubber bands (also recommended). My D bag is sized for a 150 so the canopy is loose in it (can cause harder openings) I have had like 2 hard openings out of 300 jumps and both I had not taken the time to slow down from a freefly. Typically my canopy opens more slowly than I want and I try to speed it up. I dump in a track all the time or not, it does not matter on my canopy. I have light riser pressure, flat glide and can slow the canopy down fairly well considering it is a non cross braced parachute loaded so high. I have jumped a 135 and a 120 with no problems what so ever except I wanted a little more speed. Bloo skies Ramon ya must have been one of the lucky ones to actually get a canopy that worked like that said it would. Wish my experience had been the same, and the experience of about 5 others I know<--- See look, pink dolphins DO exist! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #8 March 23, 2004 QuoteI already had a cazer pilot chute (which is what is recommended). Jim Cazer makes far more than the 22" and smaller P/C's sugested for Atair products.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brains 2 #9 March 23, 2004 QuoteFor what its worth. I jump a comp cobalt 105 loaded at 2.1. I already had a cazer pilot chute (which is what is recommended). I take 3-4 inch line bites which is what the old Alpha manual recommended and I use small rubber bands (also recommended). My D bag is sized for a 150 so the canopy is loose in it (can cause harder openings) I have had like 2 hard openings out of 300 jumps and both I had not taken the time to slow down from a freefly. Typically my canopy opens more slowly than I want and I try to speed it up. I dump in a track all the time or not, it does not matter on my canopy. I have light riser pressure, flat glide and can slow the canopy down fairly well considering it is a non cross braced parachute loaded so high. I have jumped a 135 and a 120 with no problems what so ever except I wanted a little more speed. Bloo skies Ramon Ditto. I own a 135 (not comp) have jumped a 120, 120 comp, and a 105. Every one of them opened like a dream and flew very nicely. I am not the canopy pilot that Ramon is, nor am i sponsored by them, but i love my cobalt. I can trash pack it, dump in a track, dump from a wingsuit flight, whatever, it doesn't matter. I also use the pilot chute that came with my Odyssey 0J, and before that, the one that came with my J3 Like many other canopies, you love them or hate them, to each his own. Never look down on someone, unless they are going down on you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
imdskydiver 0 #10 March 23, 2004 ya must have been one of the lucky ones to actually get a canopy that worked like that said it would. Wish my experience had been the same, and the experience of about 5 others I know Quote I have 300 + jumps 0n a Cobalt 120 and another 200 after it came back with the H-mod , I have had 1 hard opening in all those jumps , I do not dump in a track , I use the 28" P/C that came with my Mirage , and i am not the neatest packer , and i love my openings , I tried a 22" P/C but did not notice any difference, , I believe that Atair suggests dumping in a track because it does produce a softer openings at higher speeds but it is not a requirement . I bought a Cazer P/C and even he told me that i might want to order a smaller P/C due to the fact that his P/C are made out of Zero P material and that they produce more drag than conventional P/C's . My next canopy will be another Cobatl, I love them . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkymonkeyONE 4 #11 March 23, 2004 I have a LOT of jumps on CC 65's, 75's , and a lot more on an H-mod 85. I never once had a bad opening on any of my personal/team canopies, but I did eval on some stock cobalt customer canopies in sizes 105 and 170 that knocked the living shit out of me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kansasskydiver 0 #12 March 23, 2004 QuoteI have a LOT of jumps on CC 65's, 75's , and a lot more on an H-mod 85. I never once had a bad opening on any of my personal/team canopies, but I did eval on some stock cobalt customer canopies in sizes 105 and 170 that knocked the living shit out of me. could it be that the demo canopy i had was ragged out and out of trim? Anyways, not trying to start another big discussion on Atair, you can read the link I posted above to see what others thought of it and their problems as well, but it seems to be the HIGHER the wingloading and or the sponsor canopies never open hard, but the larger ones just beat the living crap outta people<--- See look, pink dolphins DO exist! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bobsled92 0 #13 March 24, 2004 QuoteI have a LOT of jumps on CC 65's, 75's , and a lot more on an H-mod 85. I never once had a bad opening on any of my personal/team canopies, but I did eval on some stock cobalt customer canopies in sizes 105 and 170 that knocked the living shit out of me. *************************************** I got the Comp Cobalt just like you recommended. I heard each canopy made can have it's own characteristics but, I'm finally ready to jump again(shoulder surgery/right side) and I can't wait to try it out!!!!!!!!! Thanks for all of your help with this over the last year & 1/2. I plan to take it with caution and education (and straight-in landings for quite awhile). Thanks again, -Grant G._______________________________ If I could be a Super Hero, I chose to be: "GRANT-A-CLAUS". and work 365 days a Year. http://www.hangout.no/speednews/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites VectorBoy 0 #14 March 24, 2004 Well I own and jump a 120 and a 135. Have jumped a 150 and a 105 loaners. I have swapped my 28 cazer and RI 26 PC back and forth ( no diff ) Dump in a track, dump in a wing suit track, dump from a HD, dump on my back sub terminal hop & pop. Long stow bites or free stow after the lockers ( no diff ) grab the rears or not ( again no diff ) Again all of the above no diff on how they open. They all opened nice they only impact I can make is how "tight" I roll the tail. From soft opening to scary for students " they would have cut the thing away by now" and I have video of those. I don't modify any of my gear to achieve the results I want in an opening and My usage is diverse to say the least. If you want next time i'm in Kansas i can show you how to pack. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kansasskydiver 0 #15 March 24, 2004 QuoteIf you want next time i'm in Kansas i can show you how to pack. I got rid of it a long time ago and bought a Xfire2 instead that I can do whatever I want to it and it won't open hard, and Icarus stands behind their products instead of just making excuses and telling me I'm doing something wrong and that all their canopies are god. Again as I've pointed out, the Cobalts seem to be a great canopy, for those lucky enough to get one that does exactly what they say. I'm just saying that I have yet to meet an average joe with a lightly loaded cobalt that doesn't slam them... maybe it's the just the air in kansas or something, but all the pros rave the canopy and talk it up, but what I got was NOTHING like it, I wasn't the only one packing it either just to see if I was doing something wrong<--- See look, pink dolphins DO exist! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhreeZone 20 #16 March 24, 2004 > I'm just saying that I have yet to meet an average joe with a lightly loaded cobalt that doesn't slam them... 225+ jumps on my old Cobalt 150 loaded at 1.2 and never once had a bad opening that I remember on it. I like the openings on my Jedei better, but thats a different topic.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kansasskydiver 0 #17 March 24, 2004 I'm starting to notice a trend though in the responses on the canopy performing well. Highly loaded it seems to work like a dream, not highly loaded it doesn't work as intended. Could this be some of the same issues as experienced with larger x-braced canopies and terminal openings?<--- See look, pink dolphins DO exist! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites grega 0 #18 March 24, 2004 Huh everyone speaks about the openings, though the question was about landing characteristics. Well mine Cobalt competition 120 (loaded 1.75) opens verrryy nice too. on average 4-6 seconds long openings (it takes 600 - 1000 feets), and it opens gradually. It doesn't just snivel for 5 seconds than slam. About the landings characteristics. well it's hard to just explain it's easier to compare. but it has a lot of flare power, though i find it twitchier to land perfectly than with other canopies i jumped (impulse, stilleto,...). When you're at the end of flare, just before it stalls it just keeps flying, and flying at very slow speed. But it's hard to get it there because you're so close to the stall point. But on a few landings i just floated Milimeter from stall point. And the whole flare sequence has to be just right so you can hold it there (depends a lot whether you dug it out of the corer, or you were landing perfectly, or braked,.. I have to experiment more to give better details) At mine i also find that the most flare power it has in upper part of the toggle stroke. if you're already in the lower part you'll have hard time climbing, if your dragging your ass over the ground for example, you'll probably land on the ass. unless you'd pull your toggles abruptly for the second half. in first half you can easily climb-gain altitude (well couple of feets of course, not like 100 feet or so ) That of course depends on wing loading too. Maybe a few more details can tell you the guys with more jumps on it than me. I only have about 150 jumps on mine..."George just lucky i guess!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bobsled92 0 #19 March 24, 2004 Thanks! I'm recovering for work injury and ready to jump it finally!_______________________________ If I could be a Super Hero, I chose to be: "GRANT-A-CLAUS". and work 365 days a Year. http://www.hangout.no/speednews/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skydivejunky 0 #20 March 25, 2004 I've got quite a lot of cobalt jumps from 150's to 85's and 99.9 percent of them opened beautifully. The only thing I don't like is they take too long to open for me. I like quick openings like on my vx 79... (whack!) I've dumped in full out tracks with em and they still opened slow. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites VectorBoy 0 #21 March 26, 2004 The only thing I don't like is they take too long to open for me. I like quick openings (whack!) I've dumped in full out tracks with em and they still opened slow. Yeah baby yeah! I've only got one neck to give. Slow ride is the way! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 4 #11 March 23, 2004 I have a LOT of jumps on CC 65's, 75's , and a lot more on an H-mod 85. I never once had a bad opening on any of my personal/team canopies, but I did eval on some stock cobalt customer canopies in sizes 105 and 170 that knocked the living shit out of me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kansasskydiver 0 #12 March 23, 2004 QuoteI have a LOT of jumps on CC 65's, 75's , and a lot more on an H-mod 85. I never once had a bad opening on any of my personal/team canopies, but I did eval on some stock cobalt customer canopies in sizes 105 and 170 that knocked the living shit out of me. could it be that the demo canopy i had was ragged out and out of trim? Anyways, not trying to start another big discussion on Atair, you can read the link I posted above to see what others thought of it and their problems as well, but it seems to be the HIGHER the wingloading and or the sponsor canopies never open hard, but the larger ones just beat the living crap outta people<--- See look, pink dolphins DO exist! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bobsled92 0 #13 March 24, 2004 QuoteI have a LOT of jumps on CC 65's, 75's , and a lot more on an H-mod 85. I never once had a bad opening on any of my personal/team canopies, but I did eval on some stock cobalt customer canopies in sizes 105 and 170 that knocked the living shit out of me. *************************************** I got the Comp Cobalt just like you recommended. I heard each canopy made can have it's own characteristics but, I'm finally ready to jump again(shoulder surgery/right side) and I can't wait to try it out!!!!!!!!! Thanks for all of your help with this over the last year & 1/2. I plan to take it with caution and education (and straight-in landings for quite awhile). Thanks again, -Grant G._______________________________ If I could be a Super Hero, I chose to be: "GRANT-A-CLAUS". and work 365 days a Year. http://www.hangout.no/speednews/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VectorBoy 0 #14 March 24, 2004 Well I own and jump a 120 and a 135. Have jumped a 150 and a 105 loaners. I have swapped my 28 cazer and RI 26 PC back and forth ( no diff ) Dump in a track, dump in a wing suit track, dump from a HD, dump on my back sub terminal hop & pop. Long stow bites or free stow after the lockers ( no diff ) grab the rears or not ( again no diff ) Again all of the above no diff on how they open. They all opened nice they only impact I can make is how "tight" I roll the tail. From soft opening to scary for students " they would have cut the thing away by now" and I have video of those. I don't modify any of my gear to achieve the results I want in an opening and My usage is diverse to say the least. If you want next time i'm in Kansas i can show you how to pack. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kansasskydiver 0 #15 March 24, 2004 QuoteIf you want next time i'm in Kansas i can show you how to pack. I got rid of it a long time ago and bought a Xfire2 instead that I can do whatever I want to it and it won't open hard, and Icarus stands behind their products instead of just making excuses and telling me I'm doing something wrong and that all their canopies are god. Again as I've pointed out, the Cobalts seem to be a great canopy, for those lucky enough to get one that does exactly what they say. I'm just saying that I have yet to meet an average joe with a lightly loaded cobalt that doesn't slam them... maybe it's the just the air in kansas or something, but all the pros rave the canopy and talk it up, but what I got was NOTHING like it, I wasn't the only one packing it either just to see if I was doing something wrong<--- See look, pink dolphins DO exist! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #16 March 24, 2004 > I'm just saying that I have yet to meet an average joe with a lightly loaded cobalt that doesn't slam them... 225+ jumps on my old Cobalt 150 loaded at 1.2 and never once had a bad opening that I remember on it. I like the openings on my Jedei better, but thats a different topic.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kansasskydiver 0 #17 March 24, 2004 I'm starting to notice a trend though in the responses on the canopy performing well. Highly loaded it seems to work like a dream, not highly loaded it doesn't work as intended. Could this be some of the same issues as experienced with larger x-braced canopies and terminal openings?<--- See look, pink dolphins DO exist! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grega 0 #18 March 24, 2004 Huh everyone speaks about the openings, though the question was about landing characteristics. Well mine Cobalt competition 120 (loaded 1.75) opens verrryy nice too. on average 4-6 seconds long openings (it takes 600 - 1000 feets), and it opens gradually. It doesn't just snivel for 5 seconds than slam. About the landings characteristics. well it's hard to just explain it's easier to compare. but it has a lot of flare power, though i find it twitchier to land perfectly than with other canopies i jumped (impulse, stilleto,...). When you're at the end of flare, just before it stalls it just keeps flying, and flying at very slow speed. But it's hard to get it there because you're so close to the stall point. But on a few landings i just floated Milimeter from stall point. And the whole flare sequence has to be just right so you can hold it there (depends a lot whether you dug it out of the corer, or you were landing perfectly, or braked,.. I have to experiment more to give better details) At mine i also find that the most flare power it has in upper part of the toggle stroke. if you're already in the lower part you'll have hard time climbing, if your dragging your ass over the ground for example, you'll probably land on the ass. unless you'd pull your toggles abruptly for the second half. in first half you can easily climb-gain altitude (well couple of feets of course, not like 100 feet or so ) That of course depends on wing loading too. Maybe a few more details can tell you the guys with more jumps on it than me. I only have about 150 jumps on mine..."George just lucky i guess!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bobsled92 0 #19 March 24, 2004 Thanks! I'm recovering for work injury and ready to jump it finally!_______________________________ If I could be a Super Hero, I chose to be: "GRANT-A-CLAUS". and work 365 days a Year. http://www.hangout.no/speednews/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydivejunky 0 #20 March 25, 2004 I've got quite a lot of cobalt jumps from 150's to 85's and 99.9 percent of them opened beautifully. The only thing I don't like is they take too long to open for me. I like quick openings like on my vx 79... (whack!) I've dumped in full out tracks with em and they still opened slow. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VectorBoy 0 #21 March 26, 2004 The only thing I don't like is they take too long to open for me. I like quick openings (whack!) I've dumped in full out tracks with em and they still opened slow. Yeah baby yeah! I've only got one neck to give. Slow ride is the way! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Harksaw 0 #22 March 26, 2004 I don't jump a Cobalt, but don't they say that dumping in a track will give you a slower opening? From Atair's website: Quote Cobalts open best in a forward track. Generally the slower you go, the faster a Cobalt will open. Deploying in a track keeps your vertical speed at optimum for a slow 2-stage opening.__________________________________________________ I started skydiving for the money and the chicks. Oh, wait. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
monkeybot 0 #23 May 4, 2004 I jump a CC95 loaded 2:1. The 20/30 first jump I did, it slammed the living hell out of me. I went to a 22" PC and it definitively made it better, maybe my neck got stronger =). Now I had put more than a 100 jumps on it and I get the ocasional slammer. I came from flying a Stiletto 120 which is on my second rig now (More predictable openings). My ST 120 seems like a student rig now. After openings the cc95 flys awesome. It flys way steeper than the ST and other canopies I have flown side by side the same size. Which I like. I have landed many times with no front risers input (that was the first reason I got it) with no issues whatsoever. I had a few openings with line twists and it always flies straight. Yesterday for example I had two line twists, very tight. I was able to kick one and suddenly the canopy dove to the right which I thought was going to be a for sure cutaway. I grabbed my handles while looking my altimeter (2300) and when I was about to pull, the canopy got stable and flew straight. I kicked the other line twist. Maybe luck maybe the canopy. My trusty st 120 doesn't see the light anymore. -------------------------------- I have no friends under 2K Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bobsled92 0 #24 May 5, 2004 I love my CC. it's doing better for me than I thought it would and is faster than reg. Cobalt by a good margine. Iwill be taking canopy classes due to my limited recent jumps #'s. The simple pack jobs do better than getting too crazy over rolling things._______________________________ If I could be a Super Hero, I chose to be: "GRANT-A-CLAUS". and work 365 days a Year. http://www.hangout.no/speednews/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
