How much do you load your reserve?

[AndyMan 7]

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So do you feel my reserve is my "worst case" scenario? My reserve is a PD160R loaded at about 1.4...while my main is a Xaos 103 loaded at almost 2.2. I certainly don't agree with your reasoning(for a 20mph downwinder on your reserve), but you already know that.

Most likely. I don't know a lot about your skills, but with most people, their reserve is of different shape and form then their main, and they've never flown it before. When you do use it, you're most likely to be landing off, and you're most likely going to be opening low. Reserve rides are rarely "normal". I don't know you, but I suspect that even with your bigger reserve you're in better hands under your main, because you know well how it flies.

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If I end up downwind under my reserve....well, I'll be happy it isn't my main...and take the downwinder...hell,

I'm really surprised you're so reluctant to downwind your main. Do you crosswind it? To be quite honest, I'm really surprised that youi're jumping at the wingloading that you are, if you're unwilling to ever downwind your main.

Certainly if you're unwilling to downwind your main, you definately should not go downwinding your reserve, unless you first put a huge number of jumps on a demo one.

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I hope others have good enough judgement in this area as well to not do intentional downwind landings with 20+mph winds...or to jump at all when the winds are that high..

Well this really is key to my point. I don't argue that people must do a downwind in 20mph winds, I argue people should do them in the worst conditions they'll jump in. The next time somebody is looking at questionable conditions, Even though they're cocky and know they can land their main in those conditions, I want them to think about landing their reserve in those conditions, downwind.

Ultimately, I want people to be prepared for the worst. This means two things. a: it means preparing for those things we are capable of preparing for, and b: making wise choices about what conditions we jump in.

BTW - If you have a good reserve, (I jump a PD143, the best, I think...) I think you'll find that downwinding it is really quite similar to downwinding your main. Since your reserve is so much bigger then your main, I think you'll find it slower, uses less runway, and shuts down easier resulting in a shorter slide. It's not terribly dangerous if you have a good landing area, and it IS a hell of a lot of fun.

I hope it goes without saying that throughout this discussion, I'm talking about a DEMO reserve, setup on main risers.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[Aviatrr 0]

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I'm really surprised you're so reluctant to downwind your main. Do you crosswind it? To be quite honest, I'm really surprised that youi're jumping at the wingloading that you are, if you're unwilling to ever downwind your main.

I do downwind the main occasionally...and crosswind it often....but I'm not willing to intentionally downwind it in 20+mph winds. I have done many downwinders with a carve to crosswind in 10-15mph winds. My main has a ton of lift, and I can shut it down with 2-3 short steps on a calm wind day....but if I'm going downwind in 20mph winds...I'm still doing 20+mph when the canopy quits flying. I'm certainly not going to try to slide that out on my feet....that's a sure-fire recipe for a busted ankle/leg, or worse. For the same reason, I won't intentionally downwind my reserve in such conditions. Like I said....if it happens, I take the downwinder. I know when NOT to try to turn. Most likely I'll try to carve it into a crosswind during the flare.

I definitely don't recommend that anybody go out and intentionally downwind their reserve(and I do know we're talking a reserve rigged as a main, not their actual reserve) in 20mph winds. Hell, most people shouldn't be jumping in those winds.

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I don't argue that people must do a downwind in 20mph winds, I argue people should do them in the worst conditions they'll jump in.

So no students should be jumping unless their willing to downwind their reserve in the max wind allowed in the BSR's for students? I guess part of AFF needs to include a demo reserve downwind landing in such winds.

Look, here's where we'll agree to disagree. You're not changing my opinion, and I'm not changing yours. We both know that.

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BTW - If you have a good reserve, (I jump a PD143, the best, I think...) I think you'll find that downwinding it is really quite similar to downwinding your main. Since your reserve is so much bigger then your main, I think you'll find it slower, uses less runway, and shuts down easier resulting in a shorter slide. It's not terribly dangerous if you have a good landing area, and it IS a hell of a lot of fun.

"The best" reserve depends on the specific person and their skill level. If you are referring to PD reserves being the best, I share that opinion. I have landed as small as a 126(after a cutaway on a borrowed rig), and had no problem....on the DZ...but I would have hated to have that reserve at some of the places I jump with small landing areas outside of the DZ. If I knew that I would land on the DZ every time, I would probably have a PD113R. I've seen people land 'em at up to 2.2WL, and they land fine. I doubt they can be sunk into a small area very easily/safely - hence the reason I don't jump that small of a reserve. In some of the places I jump the out landing areas are residential neighborhoods. Sure, there are bigger things...if you're far enough out, or on the right side of the DZ>..not someplace I want to be trying to sink a 113 into. My main sinks in nicely...very twitchy, but safely doable...but the same WL on a reserve, not too likely to be safely doable.

If you want to fool yourself into thinking it's not terribly dangerous, fine.....I just don't want you fooling somebody else into thinking the same. I would hope that anybody considering trying something like this will speak with local instructors and/or very experienced canopy pilots that know their skills.

Unfortunately, we're just re-hashing the same thing we have a couple times in the past. For those of you who have read this far...sorry...I'm done ranting..

Mike

[kansasskydiver 0]

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3) Not flaring helps nothing, and without additional info, it sounds like a stupid thing to do. Certainly not something I'd recomend, nor something I plan on doing, nor will I prepare for it.

Actually no not flaring didn't help anything, but I believe the correct frame of mind is to jump a reserve that you'd feel comfortable landing unconcious, downwind and set in half-brakes. Of course I did NOT intentionally not flare. It was one of those no shit there I was jumps that turned really bad. I have never done a night jump again. I literally didn't know how close to the ground I was until my feet hit it. A lot of things went wrong and all on the same jump which as a result had me landing in a unknown place with no lighting or moon to help me referrence to the ground.

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On the other hand, 1) Drifting backwards? If you're going to jump in high winds, I certainly hope you know how to land while backing up.

Again, as I said before, it was a jump that went horribly wrong. The uppers shifted between the 1st and 2nd loads we threw that evening. I was on the 2nd load, exited last and drifted almost a mile in freefall. Under canopy I was drifting away from the lights of the near by city. I ended up landing in the middle of a field 1.5-2 miles off the spot. When they found me they said I was just walking around like I had seen a ghost. I had left my gear in the field. We found my strobe (broke on exit, i.e. no light) helmet and other things spread out across my landing area.

So yes I feel more than confident that I could land my reserve set in half brakes, downwind with no flare and live through it. I'm not going to do an intentional 20mph downwinder

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