fundgh 0 #1 May 12, 2004 I have done some searches and found a little information....But my question is this: I am looking to move from my Sabre 150 to something more elliptical, and all I know about is the Sabre 2. What other canopies would make good transition canopies- Safire 2? Others? Does Icarus have a demo program? I will be flying a camera in the future, so soft opening is a factor. Any opinions are appreciated....FUN FOR ALL! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflydrew 0 #2 May 12, 2004 And the door opens again... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #3 May 12, 2004 If your profile is correct you have some number of jumps to go before you have any business on an "eliptical" canopy. That Sabre 2 is already a quite agressive planform.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflydrew 0 #4 May 12, 2004 diablopilot enters the room... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 4 #5 May 12, 2004 Unless I am mistaken, he is still jumping an original Sabre. That said, the Sabre2 is a fine choice as a next canopy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #6 May 12, 2004 That's what I get for speed reading. The Sabre 2 or a Pilot, or a Safire 2 would be excelent choices. I read it as he had a Sabre 2 already and wanted to go more eliptical than that. Whoops.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #7 May 12, 2004 My bad. I read your post incorrectly the first time. The Sabre 2 would be a fine choice as a stepping stone from the Sabre. The Pilot from Aerodyne is another outstanding canopy you may want to look into.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fundgh 0 #8 May 12, 2004 Pilot vs Sabre 2 vs Safire 2 - Any distinct differences in the way they fly, land, open, pack, etc.?...FUN FOR ALL! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #9 May 12, 2004 Wow. Big question. Remember this is all just my opinion. The Safire2 is an improvement over the dog that the Safire 1 was, but it still has a way to go. Nice openings, but a weak flair. The Pilot is one of the nicest opening canopies I've yet seen. Smooth, on heading, and soft. The flare is smooth an consistant throughout the toggle stroke. The Sabre 2 can be "twitchy" on openings, but I've not been slammed by one. The Flare like many PD products is stron, with a large portion being in the top half of the toggle stroke, but still having full use of the entire stroke.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ccowden 0 #10 May 12, 2004 If you like your Sabre at all- then you will LOVE the Sabre2. Very nice all-around canopy with great openings that can be flown conservatively as well as to learn higher performance techniques when you are ready. It seems like the logical choice for you going from a Sabre and your jump numbers. Plus PD has a demo program that is second to none with customer service that is first rate. Of course this is coming from someone who is a HUGE PD fan! But there is defintely a reason for that! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weegegirl 2 #11 May 12, 2004 Similar to the Sabre 2 is the Lotus by BigAir... I loved that canopy and would recommend it to most beginning to intermediate pilots... http://www.bigairsportz.com/lotus.php Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Staso 0 #12 May 12, 2004 Quote The Safire2 is an improvement over the dog that the Safire 1 was, but it still has a way to go. Nice openings, but a weak flair. i wouldn't say that safire 2 has a weak flare. i'd rather say it has a very good flare, but the thing is that all icarus canopies has longer input range then PD canopies and many people used to PD flare consider Icarus flare "weak" or weird. i personally preffer longer input range that give me more precise control. i flew original sabre and then switched to safire 2 and can't say anything bug good about it. very solid canopy. now i'm flying cf2 and can't be happier with it. stan. -- it's not about defying gravity; it's how hard you can abuse it. speed skydiving it is ... Speed Skydiving Forum Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflygoddess 0 #13 May 13, 2004 Quotemany people used to PD flare consider Icarus flare "weak" or weird. i personally preffer longer input range that give me more precise control. really...hmm...all I have flown are Sabres orginal now, but Sabre2s to start off with, I am going to be jumping a Crossfire for my next canopy (granted this wont be until 1: the twins are born, 2: I am reccurent with about 50 more jumps and 3: as long as we get Todd a Xaos because his FX or VX, I always forget which one it is, is blown apart, so he has been jumping his boring slow Crossfire boat, well to him it is) any ways, will I notice a huge difference in flaring, other than just the typical switching to a higher performance canopy?...oh my Saber and the Crossfire has just 1 sqft difference...so no chaning wingloading really. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GravityGirl 0 #14 May 13, 2004 I know! I know! Buy one of each! Sorry not too helpful, I know. There are truely so many wonderful canopies to choose from right now. A skydivers dream. The four that have been discussed here are all awesome and appropriate canopies. If becoming a more aggressive pilot is what you are after, I would have to lean toward the Sabre2. For ease of front riser pressure and grace in and out of the riser turn. Next consider price and availability. Who has what in stock? Colors? They are all close enough in price that it shouldn't be too much of a deciding factor. Next consider resale value. It's cool to be the only guy on your block with a particular canopy, but it might now be so cool at resale time. Take a look at your local market. See what it popular in your area. As, I said, they are all good choices. Have a fun summer! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Peace and Blue Skies! Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
daveom 0 #15 May 13, 2004 Has anyone flown a Nitro(n) at low wingloading? HiPER recommend loadings from 1.1 to 1.7. Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cloggy 1 #16 May 13, 2004 Although their website suggest use for inexperienced pilots too, the manual recommends min. 500 jumps at w/l 1.3 or more. Makes me wonder a bit how HiPer defines inexperienced... But the Nitro is something I'd like to try whenever I get bored with my Sabre2. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
daveom 0 #17 May 13, 2004 Hi Cloggy, I've just had another look. It recommends loadings from 1.1 to 1.7, but recommends 500 jumps for loadings _above_ 1.3 ... Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fundgh 0 #18 May 13, 2004 Is that the canopy with the little fins on it?...FUN FOR ALL! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
daveom 0 #19 May 13, 2004 QuoteIs that the canopy with the little fins on it? Yep, that's the one! http://www.hiperusa.com/ It gets great reviews at higher wingloadings, and the original German HiPeR Nitro (not the Precision licenced remake called the Nitron) is made from non-slippy Gelvenor fabric. More discussions at: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1035620 Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DancingFlame 0 #20 May 14, 2004 QuoteThe Safire2 is an improvement over the dog that the Safire 1 was, but it still has a way to go. Nice openings, but a weak flair. How many times did you jump Safire2? I would say Sabre2 has no more flare than Safire1. But control range of the Safire1 is a WAY longer than Sabre2's. I have to hold toggles near my knees to completely stall the Safire1, while Sabre2 stalls with toggles on the chest level. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 4 #21 May 14, 2004 Who's Sabre2 stalls at chest level? Certainly not mine. My 97 has a very long toggle stroke. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
meatbomb 0 #22 May 14, 2004 Sabre 2's with the factory settings would stall at around that depth on most people...they have (to my eye) extremely short factory toggle settings.--- Swoopert, CS-Aiiiiiii! Piccies Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #23 May 14, 2004 I have never seen a properly trimmed and rigged Sabre 2 that stalls with such a short toggle stroke. I've jumped the Saber 2 as high as a 2.0 wing loading, and as light a 1.2 and again, I've never seen that occur.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LoudDan 0 #24 May 15, 2004 I've got a little over 350 jumps on Sabre 2's from a 230 down to a 170 (1.2 - 1.52 W/L). I can't ever recall having a short flare stroke, the only time I stalled the 210 was by taking a toggle wrap and flaring down past my hips (done up high). I can say that at the higher wing loadings, the flare has more bite at the bottom end (shut down). I've only had one or two wild openings, and no hard openings, I chalk those up to body position. Coming soon to a bowl of Wheaties near you!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chrisky 0 #25 May 17, 2004 I know not many know of them in the US, but i got a Paratec Faqtor, which is a semielliptical, same "class" as the Sabre 2. But from my test jumping experience (Two jumps, so not much really) i found it to be more fun to fly. It has a great dive and long recovery arc, but you can also turn it flat like a pancake if you need to. Paratec has a US dependency, but i don't know whether they sell canopies on the US market yet. A couple of people might have read on their innovative R.A.G.E. design in a different thread.The mind is like a parachute - it only works once it's open. From the edge you just see more. ... Not every Swooper hooks & not every Hooker swoops ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
