BrianSGermain 1 #76 June 23, 2004 The discrepancies are based both on laziness and deliberate deception. There is, of course, the true area of a canopy, but that is not what many manufacturers use as their number. Areas of debate: 1) Top surface span (leading or trailing edge, 6" back from leading edge, or high point of airfoil) 2) Bottom surface chord or chord-line of rib (furthest forward point on rib) Sometimes designers choose their measuring method based on what they want the canopy to feel like relative to the number. If the goal is to have a high lift capability for a very small square footage, the parachute might be measured in such a manner to make it slightly bigger than the number suggests. The reverse is also true at times. I have always tried to simply tell the truth about the sizes of my canopies, and let the customer decide what is best for them. If I say it's a 95, it is exactly 95 square feet of fabric.Instructional Videos:www.AdventureWisdom.com Keynote Speaking:www.TranscendingFEAR.com Canopies and Courses:www.BIGAIRSPORTZ.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
daveom 0 #77 June 23, 2004 QuoteIf I say it's a 95, it is exactly 95 square feet of fabric.I wouldn't have expected any less! Now if only everyone would play along.Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #78 June 23, 2004 QuoteWhat's the point? What's the point of jumping out of a plane? What's the point of an Eliptical canopy? What's the point of a Swoop competition? Silly question Brian.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
roq 0 #79 June 23, 2004 For example, I measured some canopys and the results measured by same process can be seen below: Cobalt 85 : 81,89 Sq feet, Aspect Ratio 2,72 Jedei 105: 105,5, AR 2,88 (You can confirm if it is correct) Nitro 88, 89,3 AR 2,45 Ninja 94, 95 AR 2,9 VX 79, 84,8 AR 2,87 Stilleto 170 Heat Wave 170, 162,6 A/R 2,86 Roq Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BrianSGermain 1 #80 June 23, 2004 Ok, here's where it gets weird. The measurements that are currently used are actual area in the computer. The inflated area will be significantly smaller, as the span is noticibly compressed due to the non-linear nature of the skins. The chord is not changed all that much. If anything it gets somewhat larger in that parameter. In essence, both the surface area and the aspect ratio are lower in flight than in the computer. This means that a 105 is more like a 90 in flight, or perhaps even smaller. Cross-braced canopies have less distortion, and so are larger in flight for the same amount of fabric area. This is partly why they are able to support higher wingloadings than traditional bicells. Apples to apples is not all that easy... As long as the customers base their judgements on performance and not a number, they will end up with the right canopy.Instructional Videos:www.AdventureWisdom.com Keynote Speaking:www.TranscendingFEAR.com Canopies and Courses:www.BIGAIRSPORTZ.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johnny1488 1 #81 June 23, 2004 QuoteWhat are the methods in popular use? I keep hearing about the 'PD method' or 'Icarus method'... Icarus measures their canopies with the same method that PD does simply for the fact that its probably the best reference for most jumpers. Johnny --"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!" Mike Rome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjasantos 0 #82 June 24, 2004 QuoteWhat's the point of risking everything for a number? Hi Brian, I think that at this level R&D is not 100% responsible... to achieve a WR must be weighting here too... in fact a WR is an achievement never reached by someone before, meaning that limits have been pushed further once again... But I agree with you: down the road, there is a limit somewhere... but the way things are evolving it's becoming hard and unpredictable to tell where. Blue Skies! ----------------------------- Mario Santos Portugal Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grega 0 #83 June 24, 2004 Heh talking about limits. Limit is always pushed further. so theoreticaly if time is irelevant, there is no limit !!! What Brian is affraid is that Luigi will try to push the limit to fast and go beyond it There only lucky coincidences can save you, if at all..."George just lucky i guess!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #84 June 24, 2004 >Icarus measures their canopies with the same method that PD does . . . Well, they do now. It almost doesn't matter what method everyone uses as long as everyone sticks to one method. No one wants to go to a 120 because it has exactly 120 square feet of fabric, they want to go to a 120 because it's the next step down from their 135. If the 120 is really a 140, but the manufacturer prefers a different (in his view, perhaps more accurate) system of measurement that gives you 120 square feet - the guy buying the parachute will not be happy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johnny1488 1 #85 June 25, 2004 QuoteWell, they do now. They always did, I believe it was precision that didn't. But I see your point completely. Johnny --"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!" Mike Rome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #86 June 25, 2004 QuoteThey always did, I'd check that if I were you....Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumperconway 0 #87 June 25, 2004 QuoteQuoteWell, they do now. They always did, I believe it was precision that didn't. But I see your point completely. No they didn't. I had a 129 Omega that was measured Differently. Kate Cooper told me it was equivelent to about a 120 PD. The VX and FX have always been measured the same. All three were manufactured by Precision for Icarus. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skygod7777 0 #88 June 26, 2004 QuoteNo they didn't. I had a 129 Omega that was measured Differently. Kate Cooper told me it was equivelent to about a 120 PD. The VX and FX have always been measured the same. All three were manufactured by Precision for Icarus. right, the safire's and omega's where measured that way, or differently than pd's system. later Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lifewithoutanet 0 #89 July 13, 2004 I don't know how I missed this before, but you should do stand-up. That was some funny, funny shit. Thanks for making my ribs hurt even more with the laughter. -C. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ManBird 0 #90 July 13, 2004 QuoteI don't know how I missed this before, but you should do stand-up. That was some funny, funny shit. Thanks for making my ribs hurt even more with the laughter.I wondered if anyone read that. Mr. Germain's post and the ensuing responses totally squashed my post. For you jerks that didn't read it. Here it is: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1126414#1126414 You're welcome, jerks! "¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 1 #91 July 13, 2004 QuoteYou're welcome, jerks! Thanks!!!! (I read it already by the way.. however, the jerk comment still fits... again I say.. Thanks) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ManBird 0 #92 July 13, 2004 Quote(I read it already by the way.. however, the jerk comment still fits... again I say.. Thanks) I like the cut of your jib."¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #93 July 14, 2004 "I needed to focus, because this parachute was very small and I was wearing a lead safe. " Just because we don't comment on it doesn't mean we didn't get funny looks from our officemates when laughing. I also sent the whole spiel to 5 of my teammates. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VectorBoy 0 #94 July 14, 2004 Secret ninja wingsuit society.... you are bad! Do you think they will let me join now that I have a black wingsuit or will I need an eyepatch as well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ManBird 0 #95 July 14, 2004 QuoteSecret ninja wingsuit society.... you are bad! Do you think they will let me join now that I have a black wingsuit or will I need an eyepatch as well.True ninjas don't need their eyes. Get two eye patches. "¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
