weid14 0 #26 November 18, 2002 QuoteHow long they have been around doesen't mean anything by itself. What does matter is the data from their testing and use in the field under varying conditions over an extended period of time and the quantity of their use. And I would like to see some data like what is the average failure rate per thousand jumps, what causes them to fail and under what conditions? What is the failure rate of soft vs. rapide links, etc. The only data and test that I have seen is that under static conditions they are stronger than rapide links. It matters a lot, you've got years of field data where riggers were making their own, out of the same material, the only difference is you had to cut them off, and with the Pd/PDf/precision design you can take them off. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bobsoutar 0 #27 November 18, 2002 [I just installed slinks on a new canopy. The problem is when the slider comes down it covers my toggles. I have to push it back up to release the brakes and then it slips back down again and blocks my vision. Any advice? ] If you are using slinks you really need to have a collapsible slider and an enclosed cover for the tops of your toggles so that the grommets don't catch them when you pull the slider down and behind your head. I had a problem with the slider blocking my vision when it came down and solved it by using longer risers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sar911 0 #28 November 18, 2002 Quote It matters a lot, you've got years of field data where riggers were making their own, out of the same material, the only difference is you had to cut them off, and with the Pd/PDf/precision design you can take them off. _________________________________________________ Great ! Show us the non-sujective data. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites weid14 0 #29 November 18, 2002 QuoteQuote It matters a lot, you've got years of field data where riggers were making their own, out of the same material, the only difference is you had to cut them off, and with the Pd/PDf/precision design you can take them off. _________________________________________________ Great ! Show us the non-sujective data. it will be the same non-subjective data that you have now... you know that they have been in the field many years. Slinks were developed to be removable. I know people with 1000's of skydives on them, no issues. The only objective data you will ever get is the static testing. I would much rather have my slider pulled down behind my head, than it vibrating the snot out of the lines where they attach to the riser. THAT is where you'll get abrasive wear. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sar911 0 #30 November 18, 2002 Quote Great ! Show us the non-sujective data. it will be the same non-subjective data that you have now... you know that they have been in the field many years. Slinks were developed to be removable. I know people with 1000's of skydives on them, no issues. The only objective data you will ever get is the static testing. __________________________________________________ Like I said, show me data, not folklore, he said, I saw, I think, I know etc.. Please understand that I don't think they are bad, I have them on two of my own rigs. I also know people that have had problems with them and have swapped back to rapide links. What I have a problem with is the mfg. putting new products out all of the time without data such as how they were tested and what were the results. Instead we have to rely on word of mouth and forums like this for someone to ask the right question and then try to get accurate information. If I used the argument that I know someone one or a lot of people that have made thousands of jumps on soft links with no problems as my test, then I could say the same thing about rapide links. I would just like a better way to get reliable information. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhreeZone 20 #31 November 18, 2002 >What I have a problem with is the mfg. putting new products out all of the time without data such as how they were tested and what were the results. Better not get a new canopy since most companies never published their test logs. At some point you have to trust the gear makers to do their job. I'm not going to call PD and ask how many jumps were done on the Sabre2 test planform to determine if I want to demo one or not, I'll jump it my self and live with the decision. Same with a reserve, do I call PA and ask to see the test documents on a Raven if I want one? Does RWS have published reports showing how well a Vector3 ages in every possible condition and how many jumps the harness is good for? >I would just like a better way to get reliable information. Data gathering takes time and money... both of which compaines are short on. I'm sure if someone antes up money to do a test, no one would complain but until then I'm not betting any companies are chopping at at the bit to pay lots of money just to have a piece of paper that says "Slinks are stronger then steel links and wear just as long under nominal conditions."Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Hooknswoop 19 #32 November 18, 2002 QuoteGreat ! Show us the non-sujective data. By the same token, where is the non-subjective data on Rapide links? Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe Slinks went through the same, or more stringent (TSO-d vs. TSO-c, or even TSO-b) testing requirements to get TSO'd as Rapide links did. the Slink vs. Rapide link debate seems to be more about old vs. new than reliability, strength, advantages/dis-advantages, maintenance requirements, etc. Hook Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 23 #33 November 18, 2002 As I read through the rest of the thread one common theme was Slinks and mini risers. I chose to go with standard risers and slinks. The slider stops above the toggles but is not riding on the suspension lines of the canopy. Since I do not pull my slider down behind my head, because I am not looking for that extra performance, this set up works very well for me. Just another point of view."America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sar911 0 #34 November 18, 2002 Better not get a new canopy since most companies never published their test logs. When I went to the factory I was able to get data and manuals for my canopy. At some point you have to trust the gear makers to do their job. I'm not going to call PD and ask how many jumps were done on the Sabre2 test platform to determine if I want to demo one or not, I'll jump it my self and live with the decision. Same with a reserve, do I call PA and ask to see the test documents on a Raven if I want one? But that is your choice; I was just saying what I would like. Does RWS have published reports showing how well a Vector3 ages in every possible condition and how many jumps the harness is good for? I don’t know, do you? >I would just like a better way to get reliable information. Data gathering takes time and money... both of which companies are short on. I'm sure if someone antes up money to do a test, noone would compain but until then I'm not beting any companies are chopping at athe bit to pay lots of money just to have a piece of paper that says "Slinks are stronger then steel links and weat just as long under proper conditions." Well then lets just throw away the TSO results since they are just a piece of paper! (just kidding) I am not saying that what we have is bad; I am just looking for ways to improve information. So what is your suggestion to help and not complain? By the same token, where is the non-subjective data on Rapide links? You mean data like the TSO, military testing, mfg. Static test, etc. It’s available if you want to go find it. Wouldn’t is be nice to have a clearinghouse for all of this information for those that want it? The PIA is doing a pretty good job. As for cost lets start with getting the information that the mfg. already have. That’s about as low cost as you can get. Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe Slinks went through the same, or more stringent (TSO-d vs. TSO-c, or even TSO-b) testing requirements to get TSO'd as Rapide links did. Now that is a start! The Slink vs. Rapide link debate seems to be more about old vs. new than reliability, strength, advantages/dis-advantages, maintenance requirements, etc. I agree, and as we know, people are generally resistant to change. But the more information that they have the greater their comfort level is to change. I would like to thank everyone for their vigorous input and help. This is how we make a difference. Hope to meet you guys sometime, the first beer is on me. Best Regards, Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 2 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. 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weid14 0 #29 November 18, 2002 QuoteQuote It matters a lot, you've got years of field data where riggers were making their own, out of the same material, the only difference is you had to cut them off, and with the Pd/PDf/precision design you can take them off. _________________________________________________ Great ! Show us the non-sujective data. it will be the same non-subjective data that you have now... you know that they have been in the field many years. Slinks were developed to be removable. I know people with 1000's of skydives on them, no issues. The only objective data you will ever get is the static testing. I would much rather have my slider pulled down behind my head, than it vibrating the snot out of the lines where they attach to the riser. THAT is where you'll get abrasive wear. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sar911 0 #30 November 18, 2002 Quote Great ! Show us the non-sujective data. it will be the same non-subjective data that you have now... you know that they have been in the field many years. Slinks were developed to be removable. I know people with 1000's of skydives on them, no issues. The only objective data you will ever get is the static testing. __________________________________________________ Like I said, show me data, not folklore, he said, I saw, I think, I know etc.. Please understand that I don't think they are bad, I have them on two of my own rigs. I also know people that have had problems with them and have swapped back to rapide links. What I have a problem with is the mfg. putting new products out all of the time without data such as how they were tested and what were the results. Instead we have to rely on word of mouth and forums like this for someone to ask the right question and then try to get accurate information. If I used the argument that I know someone one or a lot of people that have made thousands of jumps on soft links with no problems as my test, then I could say the same thing about rapide links. I would just like a better way to get reliable information. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhreeZone 20 #31 November 18, 2002 >What I have a problem with is the mfg. putting new products out all of the time without data such as how they were tested and what were the results. Better not get a new canopy since most companies never published their test logs. At some point you have to trust the gear makers to do their job. I'm not going to call PD and ask how many jumps were done on the Sabre2 test planform to determine if I want to demo one or not, I'll jump it my self and live with the decision. Same with a reserve, do I call PA and ask to see the test documents on a Raven if I want one? Does RWS have published reports showing how well a Vector3 ages in every possible condition and how many jumps the harness is good for? >I would just like a better way to get reliable information. Data gathering takes time and money... both of which compaines are short on. I'm sure if someone antes up money to do a test, no one would complain but until then I'm not betting any companies are chopping at at the bit to pay lots of money just to have a piece of paper that says "Slinks are stronger then steel links and wear just as long under nominal conditions."Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Hooknswoop 19 #32 November 18, 2002 QuoteGreat ! Show us the non-sujective data. By the same token, where is the non-subjective data on Rapide links? Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe Slinks went through the same, or more stringent (TSO-d vs. TSO-c, or even TSO-b) testing requirements to get TSO'd as Rapide links did. the Slink vs. Rapide link debate seems to be more about old vs. new than reliability, strength, advantages/dis-advantages, maintenance requirements, etc. Hook Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 23 #33 November 18, 2002 As I read through the rest of the thread one common theme was Slinks and mini risers. I chose to go with standard risers and slinks. The slider stops above the toggles but is not riding on the suspension lines of the canopy. Since I do not pull my slider down behind my head, because I am not looking for that extra performance, this set up works very well for me. Just another point of view."America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sar911 0 #34 November 18, 2002 Better not get a new canopy since most companies never published their test logs. When I went to the factory I was able to get data and manuals for my canopy. At some point you have to trust the gear makers to do their job. I'm not going to call PD and ask how many jumps were done on the Sabre2 test platform to determine if I want to demo one or not, I'll jump it my self and live with the decision. Same with a reserve, do I call PA and ask to see the test documents on a Raven if I want one? But that is your choice; I was just saying what I would like. Does RWS have published reports showing how well a Vector3 ages in every possible condition and how many jumps the harness is good for? I don’t know, do you? >I would just like a better way to get reliable information. Data gathering takes time and money... both of which companies are short on. I'm sure if someone antes up money to do a test, noone would compain but until then I'm not beting any companies are chopping at athe bit to pay lots of money just to have a piece of paper that says "Slinks are stronger then steel links and weat just as long under proper conditions." Well then lets just throw away the TSO results since they are just a piece of paper! (just kidding) I am not saying that what we have is bad; I am just looking for ways to improve information. So what is your suggestion to help and not complain? By the same token, where is the non-subjective data on Rapide links? You mean data like the TSO, military testing, mfg. Static test, etc. It’s available if you want to go find it. Wouldn’t is be nice to have a clearinghouse for all of this information for those that want it? The PIA is doing a pretty good job. As for cost lets start with getting the information that the mfg. already have. That’s about as low cost as you can get. Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe Slinks went through the same, or more stringent (TSO-d vs. TSO-c, or even TSO-b) testing requirements to get TSO'd as Rapide links did. Now that is a start! The Slink vs. Rapide link debate seems to be more about old vs. new than reliability, strength, advantages/dis-advantages, maintenance requirements, etc. I agree, and as we know, people are generally resistant to change. But the more information that they have the greater their comfort level is to change. I would like to thank everyone for their vigorous input and help. This is how we make a difference. Hope to meet you guys sometime, the first beer is on me. Best Regards, Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 2 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
sar911 0 #30 November 18, 2002 Quote Great ! Show us the non-sujective data. it will be the same non-subjective data that you have now... you know that they have been in the field many years. Slinks were developed to be removable. I know people with 1000's of skydives on them, no issues. The only objective data you will ever get is the static testing. __________________________________________________ Like I said, show me data, not folklore, he said, I saw, I think, I know etc.. Please understand that I don't think they are bad, I have them on two of my own rigs. I also know people that have had problems with them and have swapped back to rapide links. What I have a problem with is the mfg. putting new products out all of the time without data such as how they were tested and what were the results. Instead we have to rely on word of mouth and forums like this for someone to ask the right question and then try to get accurate information. If I used the argument that I know someone one or a lot of people that have made thousands of jumps on soft links with no problems as my test, then I could say the same thing about rapide links. I would just like a better way to get reliable information. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhreeZone 20 #31 November 18, 2002 >What I have a problem with is the mfg. putting new products out all of the time without data such as how they were tested and what were the results. Better not get a new canopy since most companies never published their test logs. At some point you have to trust the gear makers to do their job. I'm not going to call PD and ask how many jumps were done on the Sabre2 test planform to determine if I want to demo one or not, I'll jump it my self and live with the decision. Same with a reserve, do I call PA and ask to see the test documents on a Raven if I want one? Does RWS have published reports showing how well a Vector3 ages in every possible condition and how many jumps the harness is good for? >I would just like a better way to get reliable information. Data gathering takes time and money... both of which compaines are short on. I'm sure if someone antes up money to do a test, no one would complain but until then I'm not betting any companies are chopping at at the bit to pay lots of money just to have a piece of paper that says "Slinks are stronger then steel links and wear just as long under nominal conditions."Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Hooknswoop 19 #32 November 18, 2002 QuoteGreat ! Show us the non-sujective data. By the same token, where is the non-subjective data on Rapide links? Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe Slinks went through the same, or more stringent (TSO-d vs. TSO-c, or even TSO-b) testing requirements to get TSO'd as Rapide links did. the Slink vs. Rapide link debate seems to be more about old vs. new than reliability, strength, advantages/dis-advantages, maintenance requirements, etc. Hook Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 23 #33 November 18, 2002 As I read through the rest of the thread one common theme was Slinks and mini risers. I chose to go with standard risers and slinks. The slider stops above the toggles but is not riding on the suspension lines of the canopy. Since I do not pull my slider down behind my head, because I am not looking for that extra performance, this set up works very well for me. Just another point of view."America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sar911 0 #34 November 18, 2002 Better not get a new canopy since most companies never published their test logs. When I went to the factory I was able to get data and manuals for my canopy. At some point you have to trust the gear makers to do their job. I'm not going to call PD and ask how many jumps were done on the Sabre2 test platform to determine if I want to demo one or not, I'll jump it my self and live with the decision. Same with a reserve, do I call PA and ask to see the test documents on a Raven if I want one? But that is your choice; I was just saying what I would like. Does RWS have published reports showing how well a Vector3 ages in every possible condition and how many jumps the harness is good for? I don’t know, do you? >I would just like a better way to get reliable information. Data gathering takes time and money... both of which companies are short on. I'm sure if someone antes up money to do a test, noone would compain but until then I'm not beting any companies are chopping at athe bit to pay lots of money just to have a piece of paper that says "Slinks are stronger then steel links and weat just as long under proper conditions." Well then lets just throw away the TSO results since they are just a piece of paper! (just kidding) I am not saying that what we have is bad; I am just looking for ways to improve information. So what is your suggestion to help and not complain? By the same token, where is the non-subjective data on Rapide links? You mean data like the TSO, military testing, mfg. Static test, etc. It’s available if you want to go find it. Wouldn’t is be nice to have a clearinghouse for all of this information for those that want it? The PIA is doing a pretty good job. As for cost lets start with getting the information that the mfg. already have. That’s about as low cost as you can get. Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe Slinks went through the same, or more stringent (TSO-d vs. TSO-c, or even TSO-b) testing requirements to get TSO'd as Rapide links did. Now that is a start! The Slink vs. Rapide link debate seems to be more about old vs. new than reliability, strength, advantages/dis-advantages, maintenance requirements, etc. I agree, and as we know, people are generally resistant to change. But the more information that they have the greater their comfort level is to change. I would like to thank everyone for their vigorous input and help. This is how we make a difference. Hope to meet you guys sometime, the first beer is on me. Best Regards, Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 2 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
PhreeZone 20 #31 November 18, 2002 >What I have a problem with is the mfg. putting new products out all of the time without data such as how they were tested and what were the results. Better not get a new canopy since most companies never published their test logs. At some point you have to trust the gear makers to do their job. I'm not going to call PD and ask how many jumps were done on the Sabre2 test planform to determine if I want to demo one or not, I'll jump it my self and live with the decision. Same with a reserve, do I call PA and ask to see the test documents on a Raven if I want one? Does RWS have published reports showing how well a Vector3 ages in every possible condition and how many jumps the harness is good for? >I would just like a better way to get reliable information. Data gathering takes time and money... both of which compaines are short on. I'm sure if someone antes up money to do a test, no one would complain but until then I'm not betting any companies are chopping at at the bit to pay lots of money just to have a piece of paper that says "Slinks are stronger then steel links and wear just as long under nominal conditions."Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #32 November 18, 2002 QuoteGreat ! Show us the non-sujective data. By the same token, where is the non-subjective data on Rapide links? Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe Slinks went through the same, or more stringent (TSO-d vs. TSO-c, or even TSO-b) testing requirements to get TSO'd as Rapide links did. the Slink vs. Rapide link debate seems to be more about old vs. new than reliability, strength, advantages/dis-advantages, maintenance requirements, etc. Hook Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #33 November 18, 2002 As I read through the rest of the thread one common theme was Slinks and mini risers. I chose to go with standard risers and slinks. The slider stops above the toggles but is not riding on the suspension lines of the canopy. Since I do not pull my slider down behind my head, because I am not looking for that extra performance, this set up works very well for me. Just another point of view."America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sar911 0 #34 November 18, 2002 Better not get a new canopy since most companies never published their test logs. When I went to the factory I was able to get data and manuals for my canopy. At some point you have to trust the gear makers to do their job. I'm not going to call PD and ask how many jumps were done on the Sabre2 test platform to determine if I want to demo one or not, I'll jump it my self and live with the decision. Same with a reserve, do I call PA and ask to see the test documents on a Raven if I want one? But that is your choice; I was just saying what I would like. Does RWS have published reports showing how well a Vector3 ages in every possible condition and how many jumps the harness is good for? I don’t know, do you? >I would just like a better way to get reliable information. Data gathering takes time and money... both of which companies are short on. I'm sure if someone antes up money to do a test, noone would compain but until then I'm not beting any companies are chopping at athe bit to pay lots of money just to have a piece of paper that says "Slinks are stronger then steel links and weat just as long under proper conditions." Well then lets just throw away the TSO results since they are just a piece of paper! (just kidding) I am not saying that what we have is bad; I am just looking for ways to improve information. So what is your suggestion to help and not complain? By the same token, where is the non-subjective data on Rapide links? You mean data like the TSO, military testing, mfg. Static test, etc. It’s available if you want to go find it. Wouldn’t is be nice to have a clearinghouse for all of this information for those that want it? The PIA is doing a pretty good job. As for cost lets start with getting the information that the mfg. already have. That’s about as low cost as you can get. Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe Slinks went through the same, or more stringent (TSO-d vs. TSO-c, or even TSO-b) testing requirements to get TSO'd as Rapide links did. Now that is a start! The Slink vs. Rapide link debate seems to be more about old vs. new than reliability, strength, advantages/dis-advantages, maintenance requirements, etc. I agree, and as we know, people are generally resistant to change. But the more information that they have the greater their comfort level is to change. I would like to thank everyone for their vigorous input and help. This is how we make a difference. Hope to meet you guys sometime, the first beer is on me. Best Regards, Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
