Swooping on backrisers

[Sabre1Lucke 0]

Hi,

I'm flying a Sabre 150 and I was wondering if it's possible to use the backrisers when swooping to gain distance. My wingload is 1,32
I don't now if a Sabre is the right canopy for this
At the moment I'm doing, for the approach, most of the time a 180° frontriser turn but sometimes I'm also doing a 270° approach.
Of all the landings I did I'm always trying to be as carefully as possible,.. with good results.

It would be nice if someone could give me good advice on this!

Thanks!!

Lucke

[thepollster 0]

First off, high performance rear-riser landings are dangerous. Even though they are now in vogue, unless you have hundreds of perfect toggle landings on your current canopy, you have no business trying hi-po RR landings yet. Can you land on rear risers on a straight in approach?

But to answer your question, yes, you can swoop a sabre on rears. I've done it on a 135 loaded at about 1.4, with good results.

[Sabre1Lucke 0]

Thank you for your fair answer!
I raised the question because I was curious and because I'm very satisfied with the characteristics of my Sabre.
I just wanted to be sure that you don't need e.g. a Velocity to do this.
I'm also not planning to do this in the near future because I know that I have to less experience to do this.

But thanks again and keep up the good work!!

Regards,

Lucke

[superstu 0]

Do a search on the forums for rear risering, there has been a lot of talk about it in the past and a lot of good info out there. also, just remember that if done correctly you won't need to use your rears, the canopy should plan out on its own. just keep that in mind. later

Slip Stream Air Sports
Do not go softly, do not go quietly, never back down

[SkymonkeyONE 4]

To answer your question in the simplest terms, no, you don't need a Velo to do rear riser landings and, yes, you can land your Sabre 150 on rears. Actually at that size, unless you are loading the canopy heavilly, landing on rears is a technique you ought to be able to accomplish as a survival maneuver. There is a big difference in technique and mindset between HP rear riser landings and "survival" straight-in rear-riser landings. With 340 jumps (as per your profile), you ought to be able land straight in on rears should you break a control line. Steering and flaring with rear risers is something I cover in the first jump course and is also covered in the ISP student progression. Technically, landing with rear risers instead of toggles is not that different, particularly at lighter wingloads. It takes more force to pull down your rears and it takes range of motion to stall the canopy so you have to be carefull, but it's something you can easily practice at altitude under canopy. Being comfortable with this survival technique under larger, more lightly loaded canopies will make the HP version of the same maneuver (with transition to rears and heavier loading) very simple if and when you get the experience (read: jump numbers and proven piloting skills) to downsize. Unless it is an actual emergency with a broken control line, your hands should be through both toggles for any practices near the ground or actual landings on rears.

As far as HP landings go, there is positively no reason to touch your rear risers unless you have milked every possible foot of distance out of your toggle-only landings. For maximum distance there is a period of flight where smooth rear riser transitions and flight and then a likewise-smooth transition back to toggles will garner you a bit more distance, but you are nowhere near ready for that. There are quite a few people out there who ineffectively rear-riser their HP mains for vanity purposes with little, even negative effects on their swooping. If your turns are not dialed, then you don't have any business transitioning to rears. If you have to ever dig yourself out of the corner then you don't need to be touching your rears. If you are flying through a short course and need to stop on a dime, then why would you bust a fat turn and transition at all? You wouldn't.

PM me directly if you have anymore questions about the basic survival maneuver.

Chuck Blue
D-12501

[VectorBoy 0]

Some bail-out emergency ram-air pilot rigs have no toggles and are designed to be steered and flared on rears.

[frenchyflyer 0]

Quote

just remember that if done correctly you won't need to use your rears, the canopy should plan out on its own. just keep that in mind. later

That's also my take on this:
When I was on my Sabre2-150 loaded slightly over 1.2:1, when the approach was perfect I would swoop with no input at all for quite a while until the speed was too low to provide enough lift, then using the toggles or the rear risers made little to no difference as this speed was already quite low on a 1.2-loaded Sabre2...

To sum up, the answer is: you do not need that trick yet, you need to make all the rest perfect first.

Have fun, be safe,
G. aka GoingHome

-- Edited to add:
the 'trick' means 'RR for HP'.
Of course it's a good idea to be able to RR a straight-in approach as SkyMonkey mentionned.

[superstu 0]

I just wanted to add a little experience i had over the weekend. Usually i jump my vx 84(2.2wl), well i had to get it relined so i barrowed a xfire109(1.7wl) this weekend and by the end of the day on saturday I was able to to plan that canopy out with little or no input in zero wind, it was actually a really cool experience and helped me out greatly in getting a better feel for my vx when i got it back sunday. Now, I'm not trying to 'toot' my own horn, I'm just trying to make the point that if done correctly risers and toggles won't be needed. work on your set up, which is 90% of your swoop anyway, and take the necessary progression for your ability, but again safety is first and foremost, and rear risering should be one of the last things learned on your CURRENT canopy. Once you switch canopies you'll have to relearn and redo those steps, however it will be a quicker progression.

Slip Stream Air Sports
Do not go softly, do not go quietly, never back down

[Sabre1Lucke 0]

This is some pretty good advice that you all gave me!
I will certainly keep everything you guys said in my mind.
At the moment I have more then enough fun with improving my swoop without using backrisers.

Thanks!!

Lucke