BrianSGermain 1 #1 April 23, 2005 The following was a response to the following question: "Is it possible to truly yaw a canopy? and if so, how?" Yes, it is possible to exhibit Yaw energy under canopy. It is done with the toggles. When we apply sharp toggle input, we are increasing the drag on that side of the parachute. For a moment, all the energy is Yaw. Once the turn ensues, the outboard wingtip is almost immediately flying faster than the inboard. This causes a skew in the span-wise distribution of lift toward the outboard wingtip. As a result, the canopy exhibits roll. Depending on the aggressiveness of the toggle input, the canopy will perform anything from a very uncoordinated turn (hard toggle), or a perfectly coordinated turn, when applied in conjunction with harness input. This way the roll occurs in cooperation with the yaw, and balances the turn. The real question is: "Why would you want to only yaw the canopy?" When we are carrying airspeed, there is no good reason to fly in an uncoordinated manner. It is inefficient, and reduces our control over the situation. If, however, we have reduced our airspeed to slow flight, true "flat turns" may be useful for minimizing altitude loss. This is often used in a traditional "accuracy approach". If you are landing in a backyard or in the trees, this may be your best option. In truth, slow-flight flat turns are not completely flat. They always lose altitude. If you want to make a turn without losing any altitude at all, you must have two things: Airspeed and a Positive Angle of Attack This comes as a result of going from no brake input at all to a single toggle, followed immediately by the other toggle as well. This is what is called "collective brake pressure" and the positive angle of attack that is caused by both brakes being pulled down places the canopy at the back of the "window". Consequently, we are able to make a level-flight turn for a short period of time. Once the turn is nearing completion and the airspeed is waning, your job is to SMOOTHLY place the wing back over your head. This is not important when performing this maneuver at altitude, but essential is the ground is near. This maneuver is the most important of all. If you know how to turn your parachute in a dynamic way, allowing minimal altitude loss, there simply is no reason to hook in. That is, unless your emotions get in the way of your performance...but that is for another book, called: Transcending Fear. Blue Skies Everybody! +Instructional Videos:www.AdventureWisdom.com Keynote Speaking:www.TranscendingFEAR.com Canopies and Courses:www.BIGAIRSPORTZ.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #2 April 23, 2005 Would you reccomend that a newer pilot begin with a more simplified flat turn? One in which the airspeed was held fairly constant (say 1/2 brakes) leaving the only variable for the pilot to deal with the turn itself? My impression is that in a low altitude, high pressure situation, a newer pilot would have a better chance for a 'good' outcome if the airpseed was held constant. Although it may not be ideal for a landing, 1/2 brakes would give an 'acceptable' airspeed, where the manuver you described would have variations in airspeed throughout the approach, which opens the door for the possibiliy of an 'unacceptable' airspeed at landing. I do agree that your approach is a correct and true flat turn, and can be a valuable tool for any pilot, but it seems to me that a newer pilot would be wise to begin with the simplified version of the flat turn, and as thier skills build, gradutate to the more complex, coorditanted manuver you described. Any thoughts? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BrianSGermain 1 #3 April 25, 2005 I have been steeped in the old-timey idea that we shouldn't teach the students too much because they might get overloaded with information. I no longer subscribe to this philosophy, and belive that when I did things this way I was coping out of my responsibility to teach them everything they need. Everyone that flies a ram-air canopy needs to be able to perform both low-speed and high speed flat turns. Although we hope they will not need either for a long time, education is how we fortify our students against gravity. Although this kind of stuff does increase the length of the first solo course (post tandem) it is our responsibility to do everything we can to keep them safe. I would not personally allow my little brother to jump without teaching him how his canopy works in all flight modes. The students are our little brothers and sisters. They are relying on us for the information, and we cannot anything to get in the way of teaching all the essentials. The future of the sport is counting on us... +Instructional Videos:www.AdventureWisdom.com Keynote Speaking:www.TranscendingFEAR.com Canopies and Courses:www.BIGAIRSPORTZ.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
superstu 0 #4 April 25, 2005 so when we're talking about yaw and roll from a high performance (swooping) stand point, this sounds a lot like 'wingovers'. is that right?Slip Stream Air Sports Do not go softly, do not go quietly, never back down Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BrianSGermain 1 #5 April 25, 2005 Quoteso when we're talking about yaw and roll from a high performance (swooping) stand point, this sounds a lot like 'wingovers'. is that right? Nope. A wing-over involves extreme attitudes, and has no real function other than having fun. What I am describing is in fact a perfectly mundane maneuver; something that must be in everyone's arsenal of skills. Flying level with the ground while turning is essential for survival in this sport. A coordinated turn can lose altitude, maintain altitude, or gain altitude. Flying in "coordination" with the relative wind is to be in balance. If you are flying in balance, you are ready for anything... +Instructional Videos:www.AdventureWisdom.com Keynote Speaking:www.TranscendingFEAR.com Canopies and Courses:www.BIGAIRSPORTZ.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiveNFlorida 0 #6 April 25, 2005 Thank you for sharing that, Brian. Eye-opening as alwaysAngela. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
raymod2 1 #7 April 26, 2005 QuoteA coordinated turn can lose altitude, maintain altitude, or gain altitude. Flying in "coordination" with the relative wind is to be in balance. Hmmm. And here I thought that a coordinated turn was one that involved no slipping (achieved in an airplane by proper use of the rudder). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BrianSGermain 1 #8 April 26, 2005 QuoteQuoteA coordinated turn can lose altitude, maintain altitude, or gain altitude. Flying in "coordination" with the relative wind is to be in balance. Hmmm. And here I thought that a coordinated turn was one that involved no slipping (achieved in an airplane by proper use of the rudder). Precisely. Balance is the center-point between extremes. Coordination of turn is a balance of aircraft and relative wind. When the wind runs straight from front to back accross the airfoil, the wing is performing at peak efficiency. The balance created by this kind of "pure" flying affords the pilot complete control over the flight path. It's like carving a turn with your snowboard. The path is clean and flows perfectly with the relative world. In snowboarding the "relative world" is the snow passing the board. In flight, it is the relative wind. Same thing... +Instructional Videos:www.AdventureWisdom.com Keynote Speaking:www.TranscendingFEAR.com Canopies and Courses:www.BIGAIRSPORTZ.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
superstu 0 #9 April 26, 2005 alright, you guys are confusing the crap out of me. please define yaw? and what is a "perfectly coordinated turn"? and why it is considered a 'perfectly coordinated turn'?Slip Stream Air Sports Do not go softly, do not go quietly, never back down Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BrianSGermain 1 #10 April 26, 2005 Quotealright, you guys are confusing the crap out of me. please define yaw? and what is a "perfectly coordinated turn"? and why it is considered a 'perfectly coordinated turn'? You should have read the book... ;) Yaw is the axis of rotation that passes vertically through the head and out the feet. A change in attitude on the yaw axis might be described as a flat turn. If you altered your yaw, your compass heading would change. Roll is the axis of rotation that passes horizontally through the belly from front to back. The balancing of these two changes creates a perfect turn, also known as a "coordinated turn". When both changes happen together and in balance with each other, the relative wind flows from front to back across your airfoil. An uncoordinated turn forces the air to folow a diagonal path accross the bumps on your topskin. This is aerodynamically messy, and should be avoided when flying at high speed so as to promote control and efficiency. How's that? +Instructional Videos:www.AdventureWisdom.com Keynote Speaking:www.TranscendingFEAR.com Canopies and Courses:www.BIGAIRSPORTZ.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewGPM 0 #11 April 26, 2005 Let's see if i have this straight. In a 3-d image, you have the x, y and z axis. If the center (0,0,0) is the belly button of a person facing you, then the X is pitch, Y is yaw and z is roll. That means that: a turn on the Roll axis is like a cartwheel a turn on the Yaw axis is like spinning around while standing a turn on the Pitch axis is like doing a front flip or back loop Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BrianSGermain 1 #12 April 26, 2005 QuoteLet's see if i have this straight. In a 3-d image, you have the x, y and z axis. If the center (0,0,0) is the belly button of a person facing you, then the X is pitch, Y is yaw and z is roll. That means that: a turn on the Roll axis is like a cartwheel a turn on the Yaw axis is like spinning around while standing a turn on the Pitch axis is like doing a front flip or back loop You've Got It!!! +Instructional Videos:www.AdventureWisdom.com Keynote Speaking:www.TranscendingFEAR.com Canopies and Courses:www.BIGAIRSPORTZ.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
raymod2 1 #13 April 26, 2005 Quote It's like carving a turn with your snowboard. The path is clean and flows perfectly with the relative world. In snowboarding the "relative world" is the snow passing the board. In flight, it is the relative wind. Same thing... Good analogy. And an uncoordinated turn would be like skidding through a turn on a snowboard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BrianSGermain 1 #14 April 27, 2005 QuoteQuote It's like carving a turn with your snowboard. The path is clean and flows perfectly with the relative world. In snowboarding the "relative world" is the snow passing the board. In flight, it is the relative wind. Same thing... Good analogy. And an uncoordinated turn would be like skidding through a turn on a snowboard. Actually, it is more than just an analogy, it is an example of the same principle. Analogies get sticky; I try to avoid them... +Instructional Videos:www.AdventureWisdom.com Keynote Speaking:www.TranscendingFEAR.com Canopies and Courses:www.BIGAIRSPORTZ.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
apoil 0 #15 May 1, 2005 Quote Analogies get sticky; I try to avoid them... + Avoiding analogies is like showering with a raincoat on. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BrianSGermain 1 #16 May 3, 2005 QuoteQuote Analogies get sticky; I try to avoid them... + Avoiding analogies is like showering with a raincoat on. That's really funny. Thanks for the smile... +Instructional Videos:www.AdventureWisdom.com Keynote Speaking:www.TranscendingFEAR.com Canopies and Courses:www.BIGAIRSPORTZ.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alan 1 #17 May 9, 2005 QuotePost: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Let's see if i have this straight. In a 3-d image, you have the x, y and z axis. If the center (0,0,0) is the belly button of a person facing you, then the X is pitch, Y is yaw and z is roll. That means that: a turn on the Roll axis is like a cartwheel a turn on the Yaw axis is like spinning around while standing a turn on the Pitch axis is like doing a front flip or back loop -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You've Got It!!! Cool, now try doing that while suspended under a parachute. Or better yet try doing it by manuevering the parachute you are suspended under.alan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
