Texas CPC Meet #2

[Levin 0]

This Sunday, June, 5th at Skydive Aggieland. Registration thru 9:00 a.m. Competition starts at 10:00 a.m. The distance course will be set up Saturday for practice. Remember if you weren't at the first meet and you're not at this meet you will not be eligible to advance to the Championships in September at Mile-Hi. Looking forward to another great meet. Cya there!

[psuCory 0]

Quote

if you weren't at the first meet and you're not at this meet you will not be eligible to advance to the Championships in September

And there... we see the problem with the new system.

Not that I would be in the winners circle (there are so many talented canopy pilots out there) but, the removal of the single meet, or pre meet, qualification system, completely eliminates 90% of your competition. I saw the texas schedule AFTER my team had their planning meeting... my only chance to see competition WAS a make up meet... and given the REVISED schedule.. I have 0 chance at competing at a single meet. And I am just 1 of many many more.

While the initial idea of these meets sounded great, their reality is.. very short of ideal. In a given region, the best swoopers work within the industry... mine is Texas)... our schedule was not announced until late in the season.. well past our chance to attend. What you wind up with is second rate at best. If there was a planned meet (like the old Red Bull meets) at a given DZ, well prior to the season.. the attendance (and competition) would be much much higher.

Let me clarify this bit... I'm not trying to disparage the attendees of the "Texas swoop meet 1", but limiting participants to those that can make a series of meets (at a moving DZ because the DZOs do not want a given organizer) is insanity. Those that plan a year around this system will win. I have no problem with that (other than the entire thing happening at 1 DZ because of the organizing attempt).

But you have to have a qualification system for those of us that can only make/afford 1 meet (i.e. non working weekend) so we can come in to the finals/and or any given meet and compete with our peers.

This attend or fail system is a SERIOUS drag on most of the swoopers (of high caliber). Weekend travel requires money, missing a weekend (busiest time of the week) is more money lost... Are you willing to go net -$1000 for a competition (not counting travel costs)? No? Neither am I.

Bring the "accurate" judging to the local arena, and leave the competition national (and well announced). April is about 4 months too late to announce the years events. 4 annual meets, with required qualifing runs required, allows those that CAN do, and those that can ALMOST try, a chance.

I hope yall have fun this initial year, and learn what it takes to run a real organization. This years plan if continued will probably lead to good things, this years process.. if continued will probably piss off the true talent enough to quit.

[SkymonkeyONE 4]

I would just like to address one major flaw in your post: the thought that most "good" swoopers can't make it because they have other "commitments". Ultimately, if you want to be a competitive swooper, you have simply got to get out and compete. Many, many is the time I have heard the local beer-line swooper say that they could blister my ass, but alas, none have been able to even qualify at the entry level under any of the three past competition venues (with two exceptions in my state). If competition interests you, then you will make time to compete. If it does not, then you cannot whine about your "inability" to compete at a championship. The CPC is the training ground for larger events. True, you can still go up to The Ranch and pay your money and compete at the PSN. You can also do some of the other "non-sanctioned" events aroudn the country if your local CPC schedule is prohibitive. What you cannot do, though, is complain that you are unable to compete at the CPC championship without meeting the league criteria. That's like complaining about not getting invited to SkyQuest even though you did not participate in NSL four-way at the regional level.

Anyone can compete in the "standard" class in canopy piloting at Nationals, yet I was pretty fascinated at how few people participated. Hell, if you are already at the venue competing in another discipline, why not show everyone what you really got, or don't got, whichever the case may be? Once again, making gates and navigating a course is nothing like swooping the beer line or dragging a toe across your local pond.

I wish 1/10th of the people who told me they wanted to give competition a try would do it. I have found it very rewarding for the past five years at the pro level. I don't win and never will, but potential for learning more from the absolute best on the planet, the pure spectacle of witnessing guys go 200 feet farther than you on every swoop, and the friendships gained on the road make it totally worth it. Screw inconvenience.

Chuck

[ianmdrennan 2]

Quote

But you have to have a qualification system for those of us that can only make/afford 1 meet (i.e. non working weekend) so we can come in to the finals/and or any given meet and compete with our peers.

You can compete at any meet, EXCEPT the finals. Just because you have not made the minimum attendance and ranking for the final meet does NOT mean you cannot compete at any given regional meet.

Quote

This attend or fail system is a SERIOUS drag on most of the swoopers (of high caliber). Weekend travel requires money, missing a weekend (busiest time of the week) is more money lost... Are you willing to go net -$1000 for a competition (not counting travel costs)?

Oh please . Before the CPC I (and others) drove to Florida for the FLCPA regularly to compete. Others in the PRO category (like Chuck) travel all over the country at a LOT more of a net loss than $1000. If you're serious about it, you'll make it happen. If the rest of us can, then so can you.

Sounds like a whole lotta whining from where I'm standing.

Blues,
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[Spizzzarko 0]

Excuses are like ass holes. Everyone has them, and they all stink. Do you honestly think that the people competing in the event are not sacrificing a work day them selves? We have had people swoop the course at the end of a working jump in past comps, and it just slows everything down. Think about the other people in the comp, not just the competitors, but the judges, and the video personelle. Is it fair to them to have them bake out in the sun for any longer than they need to be? The actuall swoopers are a small part of these comps, so there are actually many people making sacrifices to make these events happen.

[psuCory 0]

Quote

I would just like to address one major flaw in your post: the thought that most "good" swoopers can't make it because they have other "commitments".

There is a fix for this problem... announce the schedule a bit earlier. This is the first year for the CPC, so I understand that things are in a state of flux. I hope to be able to make all (or at least 1) of the meets next year.

Quote

What you cannot do, though, is complain that you are unable to compete at the CPC championship without meeting the league criteria

Sure I can complain though it might fall on (understandably) deaf ears, as these rules were announced last year. Though excluding anybody that is qualified (i.e. safe) from a competition just doesn't make sense.

[psuCory 0]

Quote

Sounds like a whole lotta whining from where I'm standing.

Sorry if it sounds that way (it wasn't intended that way). This was intended to raise 2 issues;

1) scheduling... an earlier announcement of dates (i.e. more warning) would let more people schedule the time necessary to compete. This being the first year of CPC it is understandable that things are a little unorganized.

2) Make 3 of 4 meets or you can't compete in the finals. Why limit the competition? Yes the requirement, in theory, should help attendance for the first 4 meets, but the other side is that it limits competition for the finals.


Put these two issues together and you have a problem with extremely limited competition a the regional finals. In our division I wouldn't be surprised to have only 1 or 2 people qualified to attend the finals. What kind of competition is that?

Fixes? 1) announce the schedule earlier (April is just too late in the year)
2) Eliminate the 3 of 4 rule. 1 out of 4 (to prove that you can compete safely) would work.

[ianmdrennan 2]

Quote

1) scheduling... an earlier announcement of dates (i.e. more warning) would let more people schedule the time necessary to compete. This being the first year of CPC it is understandable that things are a little unorganized.

I agree. I also agree that it's most likely due to the fact that this is the first year and most of the regional organizers have never done anything like this. Hopefully they'll learn from the inevitable mistakes they'll make this year and do even better next year.

Quote

2) Make 3 of 4 meets or you can't compete in the finals. Why limit the competition? Yes the requirement, in theory, should help attendance for the first 4 meets, but the other side is that it limits competition for the finals.

My guess is that the organizer (Jim Slaton) wants pilots to gain as much experience in a competition environment with their local buddies (lets face it, we all know most of our regional swoopers) in a more relaxed fashion before sending them off to Colorado where the competition environment is going to be much more stressfull and tougher. Not to mention the additional factors of DZ elevation and pilots being in an unfamiliar environment.

Not saying it's perfect (I'm expecting formatting changes after this year as things become more refined) but for now it's what we have. In fact, I'm sure Jim will welcome suggestions from current and future competitors if they'll make the events more accessible, safer and more fun.

Quote

2) Eliminate the 3 of 4 rule. 1 out of 4 (to prove that you can compete safely) would work.

Not sure I agree with you here. I do think there should be a filtering system for the finals. Not only are there logistical issues (# of attendees and catering to them all) but the finals should be the toughest competition out there, with the 'best' from each region representing. In reality there's not a lot of swoopers in each region (seeming to average about 5) so most people will make it to the finals this year anyway. What I expect to change in the future is the # of competitors in the region and the skill level should continue to rise, making for an exciting nail biting final.

Hope you can make the competition circuit next year. I look forward to flying with you.

Blues,
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[Brains 2]

Quote

Put these two issues together and you have a problem with extremely limited competition a the regional finals. In our division I wouldn't be surprised to have only 1 or 2 people qualified to attend the finals. What kind of competition is that?

First, it is a NATIONAL finals Cory, not a regional one. Personally f think that this system is better than the old one. This lets pilots get together in their region, learn, train, and get familiar with competition. Then, they have the opportunity to qualify for a national competition where they could then get the opportunity to qualify for the pro ranks. Do you know any other sport that doesn't have a qualifying system for a championship????? In other sports to go to the finals, you have to win your region, to do that you have to win so many games/matches, etc., not just win one and you are in.
You are training with a team, awesome. However i doubt that you are making $1000 on a Sunday doing so. I give up working at the dz to go to the comp to HELP and learn, not even competing this year. Only trying to learn so i can compete next year.

Like the others said, if you are serious about it then you will make time to do it. You also don't have to compete in the TX region, you could go to any other region and compete in their comps if their schedule fits you better. Or, there is always next year.

Levin, first meet was fun and i will be there again to help. See you sunday.
Jeff

Never look down on someone, unless they are going down on you.

[Spizzzarko 0]

2) Make 3 of 4 meets or you can't compete in the finals. Why limit the competition? Yes the requirement, in theory, should help attendance for the first 4 meets, but the other side is that it limits competition for the finals.


That's the entire purpose of the competition is to rank the candidates. A NFL team can't go to the superbowl by just playing and winning one game.

[AggieDave 6]

Quote

Levin, first meet was fun and i will be there again to help. See you sunday.
Jeff

It wasn't just fun, due to the competitors that were there and the really badass vibe everyone had, it was literally the most fun I had had skydiving in a while.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[psuCory 0]

Quote

it limits competition for the finals.

Was meant in the bad way. It can serve to keep some talented people away.

While the regional setup is an interesting system, the old point based system seemed more flexible. Can't make a few local meets? Need a few more points to qualify? Well then travel to another meet. With the 3 of 4 rule, there is no opportunity to do that. Yes you can go to another region... but it has no bearing on your qualifying.

Quote

A NFL team can't go to the superbowl by just playing and winning one game.

Yes but they can miss their superbowl chance by losing 1 game.

[opinion]
While it does make sense to rank the competition through a series of events, the level of restriciton imposed by a "3 of 4 or else" rule is a bit excessive.
[/opinion]

[AggieDave 6]

Quote

While it does make sense to rank the competition through a series of events, the level of restriciton imposed by a "3 of 4 or else" rule is a bit excessive.

Honestly I think your opinion is wrong in this one. You don't even have to make every meet, just most of them, I don't see how any other way would be fair to others that are actually going out of their way to make as many meets as they can.

You either show up and compete or you don't, its that simple. If you don't compete you don't learn from the competition and that's your loss. If you do compete then hopefully you will learn from the competition. Thinking that anyone is a good enough DZ swooper to just walk up and nail it perfectly everytime with no previous experience is asinine. Todd is a decent DZ swooper, he placed first at the last meet, but his runs weren't perfect by any stretch of the imagination. They just happened to be better then the others doing them that day.


As for the tardiness in releasing the schedule and such, its the first year, hopefully next year it will be better.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[IMGR2 0]

Oh shut up Dave, you just lucked out cause two of the events are at YOUR home dz. hehe

I would have loved to have one at my home dz. Levin and the CPC could have made alot more revenue at a dropzone that has 10 times the jumpers and water(kinda).
No one at CPC ever even bothered to solicite my dz.
And yes I'm whining.

See ya sunday, Chunk! YAHOO!!!!! (hopefully)

[AggieDave 6]

Quote

Oh shut up Dave, you just lucked out cause two of the events are at YOUR home dz. Tongue hehe

Sure, but I'm already on the schedule at my home DZ as being gone the weekends of the meets. Infact, for a number of weeks leading up to the now-defunct-waller meet, I was reminding manifest I wasn't going to be there and don't schedule me for tandems.

Now, our other DZ swooper that started competing, the only reason he started was that the meet was at our DZ.

Oh, and, don't worry about the water, there's a neat little rumor going around about that (not intime for this meet, unfortunately).

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Amanduh 0]

Quote

Todd is a decent DZ swooper, he placed first at the last meet, but his runs weren't perfect by any stretch of the imagination. They just happened to be better then the others doing them that day.

I thought Yoshi took 1st? Hmm....*lost*


Levin,
See you again at the 2nd meet! It's an amazing thing you all have going on and if I cannot compete (lack of experience), the least I can do is help you out! ...not to mention that just by spectating I feel I take so much away from the competition myself!

• Quote

[AggieDave 6]

Quote

I thought Yoshi took 1st? Hmm....*lost*

Nope, Levin messed up the scoring, Todd was first, Yoshi second and Levin third. Levin posted about it in passing on the other CPC thread.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Spizzzarko 0]

Levin messed up the scoring, Todd was first, Yoshi second


Aint that just a bitch. Yoshi should still be proud of his accomplishment!

[AggieDave 6]

It was VERY close between Yoshi and Todd, though, VERY close. I have a feeling that Yoshi is going to be in top form again on Sunday and give everyone a run for their money.

No doubt that Yoshi should be proud of himself, he flew his ass off at the last meet.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Amanduh 0]

I agree! But honestly, everyone who participated should be proud of their accomplishments...I watched each competitor improve their skills so much from the first round up until the last...I'm sure that goes for every region as well.

Keep it up guys & gals!!!

• Quote

[Spizzzarko 0]

Amanda and Dave,

These CPC's really are the SHIT aren't they? I'm having so much fun competing in them. Our competition here in Colorado for 1-5 is so tight! Any mistake and you can lose several place standings. I was in first on the last meet, and the judges were looking at one of my runs very closely. If I verted then I would have dropped to 5th! Fly clean, fly carefully, and have fun. It would be great to have yall from Texas come up to the CPC nationals here in Co. in September. If you do, please bring some Blue Bell Ice cream for me. I havn't had it in 8 years, and the shiner isn't as good here in Co. as it was in Texas.

Grant

[AggieDave 6]

Oh crap their fun! A great learning experience too, I learned a lot and found a good handful of things that I didn't know I needed to work on, to work on at that first meet.

I could put a scoop of Blue Bell in box and put it in the mail...it'll get there, but the box might be dripping.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Amanduh 0]

I'll see what I can do about making it up to the Nationals..that would be amazing, I'm sure!!!

Oh...and the ice cream is on it's way...like Dave said..just probably melted LOL

[Spizzzarko 0]

I can just imagine getting a really sticky spoon in the mail!

I would be like: "What the fuck is this?.... OOhhhhh, I remember now..."

BTW it's only like an 18 hour drive from Sugar Land (SW Houston) to the DZ!

[Brains 2]

Dude, I'll make you a deal. Next time my roomie gets in some frozen samples, I'll use the box to ship you a gallon of Bluebell. You just tell me the flavor.

Never look down on someone, unless they are going down on you.