Good canopy for learning to swoop?

[vdschoor 0]

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135's like the pond too

And so do 150s

[Spizzzarko 0]

I think the Stilletto, and the Sabre2 135's are some great canopy's. PD really did a great job on making these. I have only put a few jumps on the Sabre2 135, and several hundred on stilletto's. Of all the stilletto's that I have jumped I really liked the 135 the best. It was an awesome canopy. Unfortunatly I see way to many people selling these canopy's and moving on to more advanced canopy's when they havn't really gotten all they could have out of their Stilletto's and Sabre2's.

[vdschoor 0]

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I think the Stilletto, and the Sabre2 135's are some great canopy's.

I totally agree with everything you said in your post.. people are moving on too quick.
The only reason I didn't go with the Stiletto is because I wanted a more docile canopy when it comes to openings, and I found the recovery arc on the Stiletto to be a lot shorter than on the Sabre2.

Both canopies are amazing and both are great "learning how to swoop" parachutes. Personally, I'd go with the Sabre2, since it's a newer design compared to the Stiletto and the recovery arc is longer.

[tetra316 0]

Thanks guys good advice and I'm sure I already knew it was coming. So...anyone have a sabre2 120 they want to sell

[skinnyshrek 0]

Hey Dan i love the sabre 2 150 started jumping the Nitro 135 LONGER swoops and a better flair maybe with your wing loading try the blade 120...Can't say enough good shit about the nitro.. I will be entering comps this year on it. Next time your at the farm i'll show you the difference in range i have my best swoop on the 150 and 135 on video..

http://www.skydivethefarm.com

do you realize that when you critisize people you dont know over the internet, you become part of a growing society of twats? ARE YOU ONE OF THEM?

[Rain-man 0]

I had a crossfire2 swoops like a dream, nothing beats a VX though..


J

[PhreeZone 20]

Are your jump numbers in your profile right?

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[marks 0]

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Are your jump numbers in your profile right?

DUDE. its rain man.

[kaerock 1]

Well I suggest we stop this thread right now! We need to hijack a relatively useful topic and discuss their profile entry because making statements about canopies they shouldn't be flying at those jump numbers is much more productive.

can we pass on it just this one time?

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Are your jump numbers in your profile right?

You be the king and I'll overthrow your government. --KRS-ONE

[SkydiveNFlorida 0]

lol!! Yes, the non-thread-starter's profile is WAY more important than the topic!

I just want to add that watching LoudDan swoop his Sabre2 170 (I think it was a 170) was wild! He could make that thing move!! I have never swooped a Sabre2... but i've got full faith in it after watching Dan.

I started swooping on a Stiletto.. it has a short recovery arc which makes it difficult to dial in, I cut it close an aweful lot trying to get a good swoop, because if I pulled my turn 25 feet too high i'd plane out 25 feet above the ground, it was horrible! (This was a 150 loaded 1:1).

I like the Samurai a lot, it has a good amount of dive to it and if i'm too high I can still salvage a decent landing because the riser pressure isn't insane and it keeps diving. Most would say if you change canopies to get used to the new one before swooping it, but i'm sure you knew that... i'm not saying shit at risk of being a hypocrite;)

-A

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I just want to add that watching LoudDan swoop his Sabre2 170

135 he downsized. and rightfully so.

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it has a short recovery arc which makes it difficult to dial in

not at all, well ANY canopy is difficult to dial in, the stilletto is just hard to transfer from it to something more modern, or something with a longer recovery arc. because it could kill you if you turn to low.

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i'm not saying shit at risk of being a hypocrite

we all do it, and who cares if peeps think your a hypocrite.

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[rhys 0]

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I was wondering about that. I've heard some say its hard to transition after learning on a stiletto due to the short recovery arc.....

you are exactly right stilettos do have a short arc.= not good for swooping.

1.1 w/l is not a good idea to swoop with either. if you have 400 on you 135 then moving to a 120 with a more appropriate w/l for swooping would be a goo idea although you wil have to do many jumps on it to get use to it first.crossfires or safires are good to start on.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[ianmdrennan 2]

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1.1 w/l is not a good idea to swoop with either.

Absolute nonsense.

Performance Designs Factory Team

[marks 0]

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1.1 w/l is not a good idea to swoop with either.

Absolute nonsense.

i started on a p.d. 9 cell "f11" 170. at 1.0/1!

the first time i swooped a canopy was on that, and i FREAKED!!!!. loved it, just had to learn and learn more. what sucks is im still learning more and more. and the more i learn the less i know. kinda weird if you think about it...

yes, f111 loaded at 1.0/1 170 sq. ft. is where it all started for me.


if you cannot swoop a canopy, ANY canopy loaded at 1.0/1, your not going to be able to swoop ANY canopy at ANY loading.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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1.1 w/l is not a good idea to swoop with either.

Absolute nonsense.

I swooped a 190 today (borrowed gear) loaded at about 1.0 and while I didn't go all that far, I did swoop it.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[Rain-man 0]

After this weekend they have increased by a few more .... but consider it unlikely to be materially mistated.

Stilettos definitely has a shorter recover arch that makes it more unsuitable for swooping. I like to start my hooks up high not at tree top level.

Springos also have a short recovery arch and i felt i was safer off swooping something a bit more forgiving.

ps - why do men have nipples?

[Fast 0]

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After this weekend they have increased by a few more .... but consider it unlikely to be materially mistated.

Stilettos definitely has a shorter recover arch that makes it more unsuitable for swooping. I like to start my hooks up high not at tree top level.

Springos also have a short recovery arch and i felt i was safer off swooping something a bit more forgiving.

ps - why do men have nipples?

If you are talking about safety then you might be contradicting yourself. If you turn low on a canopy with a long recovery arc you might be injured already and not even be able to see it yet. A canopy with a short recovery arc will plane out faster (obv.) and it will be more forgiving of a low turn (if you can say that about any canopy)

The only possible gain in the sense of what you seem to be talking about regarding jumping a canopy with a longer arc is being able to start a turn higher and have a broader range of control through a longer turn to adjust for being off at the start. I wouldn't call that safer, I would call it different. Short or Long there is only so much margin on the low side before you are just too low to pull it off.

That said, I probally won't jump a stilletto because I would rather jump a Smaller saber or a Xfire or something more along that lines on my way to the Katana, etc.

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[LoudDan 0]

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I just want to add that watching LoudDan swoop his Sabre2 170

135 he downsized. and rightfully so.

Actually when Angela saw me at the comp in Sebastian, I was under a 170, and thanks for the compliments .

Coming soon to a bowl of Wheaties near you!!

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I just want to add that watching LoudDan swoop his Sabre2 170

135 he downsized. and rightfully so.

Actually when Angela saw me at the comp in Sebastian, I was under a 170, and thanks for the compliments .

ohh, thaught she saw you again in deland recently, my bad.

[Rain-man 0]

Im not contradicting myself.

The way you put the take on it makes it a lose lose situation. Just my personal preference not to "have" to initiate a turn too close to the ground due to a short recovery arch.

I think you agreed with that. Both short and long recovery arch canopies will forgive you if your input wasnt suicidal and you have the right knowledge, skill and temperment to deal with it...just that short recovery arch canopies mean you had less time for corrections and fine tuning the dive..and in the worst case scenario...less time to bail out.

Thats definitely safety connected.

[AiRpollUtiOn 0]

I'm learning on a Stiletto 150 and 135 right now, and 100 jumps ago I was the king of the corner, or the king of the fly-by, due to the short recovery arc.

I now find it better and easier to start higher than before and control the dive with both risers.
If you want to give your Stiletto only binary controls (pull front riser down *on* / pull front riser down *off*) it propably isnt any good for learning to swoop without getting hurt or looking like an idiot.
(Luckily I only experienced option nr 2)

The way I'm progressing now on both canopies makes me feel like the Stiletto is an excellent canopy to learn the basics.
On this learning curve I'll propably be ready for crossbraced @ 2000 jumps or so.
(Maybe going to Katana in 500 - 600 jumps)

"Don't make me come down there" - God.

My site:http://www.skystudio.nl/video.html
Some of my vids: http://www.youtube.com/user/TomSkyStudio

[marks 0]

the stilletto is one hell of a swooping canopy.

this "short recovery" and crap like that mean nothing to the way that canopy swoops.

the big problem i have seen, myself and others, is once you dial it in and you can swoop the hell out of it, then you want to progress to somjthing more modern for swooping. that is where the problem lies. somone who has the experiance to understand recovery arc's and to also fear puonding the ground should be ok. but the transition from a stilletto to a more moder swooping canopy can be dangerous unless you really pay attention to what your doing. and that when you get comfortable, you dont revert back to that old sight picture the stilletto gave you, and turn to low to the ground..

a stilletto is a great swooping canopy, the transition to somthing with a longer recovery arc is where the problem lies....

so once you master this canopy, just be carefull if you decide to go onto something like a crossfire or katana.or about 10 other canopies on the market..

[Rain-man 0]

*** this "short recovery" and crap like that mean nothing to the way that canopy swoops. ***

If this is a serious "stand-alone" comment then i cant agree.

Talk swooping... the longer the recovery arch, the greater the potential airspeed...and i dont think i need to discuss how valuable or not airspeed is to swooping.

The rest of what you say, i agree with.

Recovery archs are also affected by wing loading. The heavier the weight under the wing, the longer it will strive to stay in the dive..or just downsize and you get longer dives...im sure "Airpollution" has noticed the 135 will dive longer than the 150.

[ianmdrennan 2]

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If this is a serious "stand-alone" comment then i cant agree.

I think what he's trying to say is that a short recovery arc canopy can be swooped far and well.

I agree with him.

Blues,
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[Rain-man 0]

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If this is a serious "stand-alone" comment then i cant agree.



I think what he's trying to say is that a short recovery arc canopy can be swooped far and well.

I agree with him.

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I dont disagree with that..but do any of you use a short recovery arch canopy for your serious swooping?

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