first elliptical canopy?

[justchrisdsp 0]

i am looking into buying an elliptical canopy, i am wondering what a good safe larger entry level elliptical canopy is in yalls opinion. i am looking for a canopy around a 170, i like the vision 168 but am still searching for the opinions of those in the know, a little more info, i have done all my swoops on a pilot 188 and 168, i load the 168 at 1.6:1. i am looking for a canopy with more performance but not so much that i will get out of my power curve too early and possibly hurt myself. so now i leave the suggestions up to yall

The only bad skydive is your last!
chris "sonic wookie" harwell
Piedra-belluda-roja Rodriguez

[tcnelson 1]

xfire2 seems to be liked by all who have jumped it and icarus makes it in bigger sizes. i don't know how differently a 169/179 would fly than a 119/129 in the elliptical planform though.

"Don't talk to me like that assface...I don't work for you yet." - Fletch
NBFT, Deseoso Rodriguez RB#1329

[kansasskydiver 0]

I agree with you and say you'd probably like the xfire2. It can be a docile canopy or a very agressive canopy. All depends on how you fly it. At a wingloading of 1.6 you'd be golden.

<--- See look, pink dolphins DO exist!

[Peej 0]

I also really like the Nitron from Precision.

Advertisio Rodriguez / Sky

[marks 0]

Nitro, by HiPeR usa =performance,similar to sabre2, but higher performance than sifire.
sabre2 by P.D. = performance, similar to nitro, but higher performance than safire.
sifire2 by icarus = performance, good entry level to intermidiate canopy.

not recomended if your not looking for HIGH performance.
xfire2 by icarus =high performance.
katana by P.D. = high performance.

and these are just a list of the one's im familiar with.

[kansasskydiver 0]

I think the xfire2 is a very docile canopy unless you're really pushing it. You can fly it stright in or jst do small turns and you're fine. There are 2 others at my dz with a light wl that started jumping them with 200-300 jumps and they've done just fine. Neither one of them are hooking or doing high performance landings

<--- See look, pink dolphins DO exist!

[davelepka 4]

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Neither one of them are hooking or doing high performance landings

But the guy who started this thread is already swooping his Pilot. Maybe something with a little less top end might be a good fit for his already-swooping transition to a higher performance canopy.

Every other canopy mentioned here (in truth, every canopy on earth) can be flown conservatively. The trick is to get the newer guys into something that can't be flown too fast.

[BETO74 0]

I like the Nitron too I have a 135 but not really good for long swoops It has a really short recovery arc, for good swoops crossfire2 or even CF1 I got lot of lift from my CF 159 and is bigger than my nitron.

http://web.mac.com/ac057a/iWeb/AC057A/H0M3.html

[kansasskydiver 0]

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Neither one of them are hooking or doing high performance landings

But the guy who started this thread is already swooping his Pilot. Maybe something with a little less top end might be a good fit for his already-swooping transition to a higher performance canopy.

Every other canopy mentioned here (in truth, every canopy on earth) can be flown conservatively. The trick is to get the newer guys into something that can't be flown too fast.

Yes but it's a pilot, it's like a sabre2 etc. the next step would be a xfire2 in my opion. Don't go to a stilletto or you'll end up getting used to taking it low. And swooping doesn't mean hooking. I can set up a nice long carve from 700ft and have one hell of a swoop. Or even flying it straight in.

<--- See look, pink dolphins DO exist!

[Peej 0]

I jumped both a Nitron 135 and a 150 when i was in the US last year. Maybe it made a big impression on me because it was the first elliptical canopy that i jumped and that it was so nice to jump with a ws.
As the others have said he's into swooping already so maybe a xfire isn't such a good idea if he's planning on pushing it.

Advertisio Rodriguez / Sky

[justchrisdsp 0]

i am already into swooping a bit, the riser pressure on the pilot is intensely heavy and the recovery arc is so fast that i can hold fronts almost all the way down. so i am just looking for the next step up, but once again something not so advanced that i am going to be dangerous to myself in it. something where i have alittle room for error.

The only bad skydive is your last!
chris "sonic wookie" harwell
Piedra-belluda-roja Rodriguez

[tcnelson 1]

well then...maybe a sabre2 loaded at about 1.4-5 would be better. i load mine at 1.22 and although it recovers relatively quickly (relative compared to a fully elliptical), it has plenty of learning potential in it with lots of safety margin for those inevitable f-ups. just make sure you dial in the length of the steering lines so that you don't have any tail deflection when you use the fronts. believe me, it makes a huge difference when the lines are even one inch too short.

"Don't talk to me like that assface...I don't work for you yet." - Fletch
NBFT, Deseoso Rodriguez RB#1329

[hippydiver 0]

Some of you don't seem to be paying attention to what he is saying... he is already swooping a pilot loaded at 1.6, a sabre2 loaded at 1.6 or lower is just going to be the samething or even more docile then the pilot from what i know of the pilot.

I can't help you with elliptical canopy choice, but i was interested in this thread because i'll be choosing my first elliptical sometime in the future as well. I've always liked everything I've heard about the crossfire1 or 2 and will probably make that my first real elliptical step, after more jumps and a few conservative downsizes on semi-ellipticals of course.

Can any of the more experienced out there compare some ELLIPTICAL canopies for us instead of suggesting side steps to a sabre2 semi-elliptical.

Be safe and please pay attention to what i'm asking and not start flaming me about moving too fast, I'm not saying I'm going to be moving to a 1.6 elliptical tomorrow and probably not for another year and some downsizes on safire1's, just would like to read responsible suggestions for good hp elliptical canopies for people who have taken the right steps and are ready to move from their semi-ellipticals to fully ellipticals.

----------
gravity rat formula 109
Team Gonzo and Team Jamaican Me Crazy
no bullshit, let's just fly, be safe, and have fun.

[kansasskydiver 0]

I still stand by the xfire2 as being a good choice for first elliptical at a semi agressive wl being a safe choice. It's been VERY forgiving for me as I learned, only had one scary landing (missed my rears on approach)

<--- See look, pink dolphins DO exist!

[marks 0]

pm me details of what you want and what your goals are.

why do you want something different?

or just post it, in detail.

[padawonMonkey 0]

I am in the market for the next step up as well. The best solution I have found is TEST JUMP. Figure out what you thing you might want. Sounds like Crossfire2 or a Nitro/Nitron would be a good bet. Then get a demo and put four or five jumps on it. You can read reviews till your blue in the face but until you feel the flight characteristics for yourself how are you really going to know. My 2 cents.

--------------------------------------------------
"But I'm Just doin what I have to do to survive"-MM

[beezyshaw 0]

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The best solution I have found is TEST JUMP.

Yes, demo everything you can, and you'll be assured of making the best choice for YOU. It's a very important decision that you need to take your time in making.

[Trae 1]

Compared to the PD canopies Icarus' open like dogshit. OK if you like getting tossed around.

You've got 500 jumps.... go Katana.... you'll fall in love with it.

[Helmut 0]

So tell us how do you really feel!!!! I love my Katana as well.

[Trae 1]

Words can't describe.





kinda sums it up.

with wingsuit flying and katana flying I'm in skydiving heaven and I'm not alone ....yippeeeee.

[Dazzle 0]

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You've got 500 jumps.... go Katana.... you'll fall in love with it.

But he's going from a Pilot 168 and wants to stay on a 170. It's not like PD have announced the 135 / 150 is ready. On past performance hanging around waiting for the canopy could take a while.

If he was to wait for the 150 then he'd be on it at a wingloading of 1.8 with 500 jumps which is a bit on the high side.

[Trae 1]

OK ....getting a bit carried away perhaps .

I haven't kept up with PD's larger Katana attempts.

1.8 would be a bit high ..ta for the reminder.

[dharma1976 0]

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i am already into swooping a bit, the riser pressure on the pilot is intensely heavy and the recovery arc is so fast that i can hold fronts almost all the way down. so i am just looking for the next step up, but once again something not so advanced that i am going to be dangerous to myself in it. something where i have alittle room for error.

Just wondering how you initiate your turns... I found the pilot to have decent riser pressure. Here are the scenarios I envision with this...(please dont take offense, just trying to figure out why a pilot with your wingloading would have such high pressure.)

a. brake lines are too short, do a test at altitude by looking up in full flight and then reach for your front risers, is there still slack so you can pull on your front risers? if not have an inch added and jump it again, notice the difference and try to dial in the right length. On my current canopy, I had to add 6 inches to my brake lines.

b. approach type. if you are doing a rapid what I like to call pull and pray, the pressure will build up quickly. you might want to try a carving turn, which in the end will build up more speed and will make your ability to abort when needed a lot easier, try doing this, at 4000 and above. take both front risers in hand, pull both symmetrically, then gradually either pull further on one or lessen on one. see how long you can hold thiswhen you havce reached your desired angle of turn (remember do this at altitude not close to ground) even up the risers either up or down, but still pulling on them. then once you are done with that check altitude. you will find you remained in the dive longer.

then after that try a pull and pray or a assymetrical turn with out starting and returning to double fronts and try to crank it around quick. you will find that the altitude loss is less and the riser pressure is highr.

so going back to my reading I find that if we use a carving turn, a we stay in the dive longer, are able to control it better, and since the dive is longer build more speed.

that pilot should be a fine canopy for you to fly for a while, if you have any questions, or if you think I am jsut an idiot, contact Brian Germain (he is one here somewhere) or jsut buy his book and read it cover to cover to get some great information.

Cheers

Dave

http://www.skyjunky.com

CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing.

[Widgeon 0]

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i am already into swooping a bit, the riser pressure on the pilot is intensely heavy and the recovery arc is so fast that i can hold fronts almost all the way down. so i am just looking for the next step up, but once again something not so advanced that i am going to be dangerous to myself in it. something where i have alittle room for error.

Tried turning it out of a little brakes? A lot of brakes? Any canopy gets easier to hold the fronts down if you unload them some first. It might change the way you have to set up a lot, but it does make the canopy easier to dive steeper, conversly with a slow slow carve with just a little riser and alot of harness, the speed will build up so much that getting the risers down an extra INCH is almost impossible.....but isn't that what we're after anyway?

my .02, you can get anything to dive. Be safe.

• Quote

[dharma1976 0]

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Quote

i am already into swooping a bit, the riser pressure on the pilot is intensely heavy and the recovery arc is so fast that i can hold fronts almost all the way down. so i am just looking for the next step up, but once again something not so advanced that i am going to be dangerous to myself in it. something where i have alittle room for error.

Tried turning it out of a little brakes? A lot of brakes? Any canopy gets easier to hold the fronts down if you unload them some first. It might change the way you have to set up a lot, but it does make the canopy easier to dive steeper, conversly with a slow slow carve with just a little riser and alot of harness, the speed will build up so much that getting the risers down an extra INCH is almost impossible.....but isn't that what we're after anyway?

my .02, you can get anything to dive. Be safe.

and it can also cause you to plow into the ground if applied wrong, maybe this guy should seeek canopy coaching before we kill him ;) ( that includes my previous advice ;) )

cheers

Dave

http://www.skyjunky.com

CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing.