MrBrant 0 #1 October 27, 2005 Hi, Somebody at my DZ just bought a VX-99. He was saying that it seem to have extremely high front riser pressure. (for comparison, he had been jumping a SAM 120) That made me wonder, is the high front riser pressure characteristic of cross-braces canopies, or is it the VX, or perhaps just this particular VX. The canopy has a JVX lineset. If it's not simply characteristic of these canopies, perhaps that could be it.... He was saying, his best theory was that the canopy was designed so that most of the pilot's weight was suspended by the front risers, until (during the flare) the weight is shifted to more of the rear risers (due to pilot's position beneath the canopy) to create more of a 'flare' with the entire tail of the canopy for a high lift (think flaps on an aircraft). [That's what I can remember from the conversation anyway, I could have remembered wrong, or misinterpreted what he was trying to say, but i think that's the gist of it]. Does this make any sense to any of you guys at all? Anyway, anybody have some insight for me to gnaw on? Thanks! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Canuck 0 #2 October 27, 2005 High front riser pressure is very characteristic of VXs. Velos are better, Xaos are best. The Onyx has pretty low front riser pressure too, but it's a piece of shit... Canuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
velocity-96 0 #3 October 27, 2005 [quote>The Onyx has pretty low front riser pressure too, but it's a piece of shit... lmao!!! BINGO! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RMURRAY 1 #4 October 27, 2005 the high riser pressure on my VX is no big deal. You get used to it. Long riser help so that your arms are fully extended to start. rm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spizzzarko 0 #5 October 27, 2005 Tell your friend to buck up, go to the gym, and to quit crying like a child. The VX is a good canopy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chachi 0 #6 October 27, 2005 there are no set characteristics of any type of canopy. they all very in flare stroke, riser pressure, toggle pressure. the vx has high front riser pressure. i tend to use brakes to bring a little out and really use my harness a lot. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MrBrant 0 #7 October 27, 2005 thanks for the info everyone oh, and Spizz, for the record, he is very happy with the canopy. It was just a comment he made about the higher riser pressure that got me curious Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Canuck 0 #8 October 27, 2005 Quotethere are no set characteristics of any type of canopy. Nonsense. While there may be variation within set characteristics, characteristics certainly do exist. VXs have very high front riser pressure - that doesn't mean it's a bad canopy. Stilettos have a short recovery arc - that doesn't mean it's a bad canopy. If there were no characteristics, we wouldn't know what kind of canopy to buy... Canuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ccowden 0 #9 October 27, 2005 Absolutely. Characteristics are what we base our choices on for a canopy and what you want your canopy to do. Crossbraced canopies are going to have a higher front riser pressure than non-crossbraced. High riser pressure is one of the trade offs for a more rigid wing with longer dive and lift. The fact of the matter is that we all don't want the same thing from our canopy. There are trade offs for everything. You want this, you give up that. It all comes down to what you are looking to get out of a canopy and what characteristics you are looking for. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites chachi 0 #10 October 28, 2005 you obviously did not understand my point. you can not blanketly say that all cross brace canopies have higher front riser pressure than non cross braces. it is simlply not true. all canopies have a characteristics that vary from canopy to canopy, from platform to platform and even between both. check my profile, obviously i dont think VX's are bad based on the riser pressure. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites crazydiver 0 #11 October 28, 2005 Quoteplatform to platform You mean planform to planform? Cheers, Travis Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Canuck 0 #12 October 28, 2005 QuoteQuoteplatform to platform You mean planform to planform? No, no, no - It's the platform that gives a canopy a nice long recovery arch Canuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites crazydiver 0 #13 October 28, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuoteplatform to platform You mean planform to planform? No, no, no - It's the platform that gives a canopy a nice long recovery arch Canuck thats funny...I was thinking about throwing the recovery "arch" in there too! Cheers, Travis Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cobaltdan 0 #14 October 28, 2005 "but it's a piece of shit..." why do you say this? .Daniel Preston <><> atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ruskie2 0 #15 October 31, 2005 Try pulling the front risers of a student canopy down...! The higher riser pressure is a good thing - especially on canopies like Velo's and VX's. I helped out on a test program a couple years back for a manufacturer who had a new elliptical 9 cell. Front riser pressure was real light - so light in fact that when you pulled them down (as you would any other canopy) the nose completely collapsed / folded under rest of the canopy! Scary shit - specially if you were at 800 feet!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RMURRAY 1 #16 October 31, 2005 QuoteTry pulling the front risers of a student canopy down...! The higher riser pressure is a good thing - especially on canopies like Velo's and VX's. I helped out on a test program a couple years back for a manufacturer who had a new elliptical 9 cell. Front riser pressure was real light - so light in fact that when you pulled them down (as you would any other canopy) the nose completely collapsed / folded under rest of the canopy! Scary shit - specially if you were at 800 feet!! how does it open, how does it fly and how does it land. those are the questions to discuss, not riser pressure... rm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Teixido 0 #17 October 31, 2005 Quote.....The Onyx has pretty low front riser pressure too, but it's a piece of shit... Canuck A comment like this probably says more about you than it says about he canopy. I jump an Onyx and i like it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Canuck 0 #18 October 31, 2005 Quote"but it's a piece of shit..." why do you say this? Just my opinion Dan, based on both jumping one and jumping with one under my own Velo. They've been on the market long enough now that if they were any good, nevermind superior to every other cross-braced canopy out there as per the marketing hype, we would be seeing them in competitions. Lemme guess - the reason we aren't seeing them in competitions is because Atair doesn't have a sponsored team. Three letters - JVX. Maybe piece of shit was strong wording. They open nice, but besides that, they just don't keep up. Canuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Canuck 0 #19 October 31, 2005 QuoteI jump an Onyx and i like it. Of course you do. Hope your profile is wrong though, because it really isn't a canopy for someone with 300 jumps - I think even Dan would agree with that... Canuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites roq 0 #20 October 31, 2005 Be sure that the Onix is the best cross braced canopy in the moment. The onix is very ahead of the other concepts of the current canopys If some top pilot to compete with the onix you can believe that will win even to the velo I am not sponsored by the atair! Only I know the modern canopys project and I admire the excellent work of the atair in the onix. roq Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. 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Canuck 0 #8 October 27, 2005 Quotethere are no set characteristics of any type of canopy. Nonsense. While there may be variation within set characteristics, characteristics certainly do exist. VXs have very high front riser pressure - that doesn't mean it's a bad canopy. Stilettos have a short recovery arc - that doesn't mean it's a bad canopy. If there were no characteristics, we wouldn't know what kind of canopy to buy... Canuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ccowden 0 #9 October 27, 2005 Absolutely. Characteristics are what we base our choices on for a canopy and what you want your canopy to do. Crossbraced canopies are going to have a higher front riser pressure than non-crossbraced. High riser pressure is one of the trade offs for a more rigid wing with longer dive and lift. The fact of the matter is that we all don't want the same thing from our canopy. There are trade offs for everything. You want this, you give up that. It all comes down to what you are looking to get out of a canopy and what characteristics you are looking for. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chachi 0 #10 October 28, 2005 you obviously did not understand my point. you can not blanketly say that all cross brace canopies have higher front riser pressure than non cross braces. it is simlply not true. all canopies have a characteristics that vary from canopy to canopy, from platform to platform and even between both. check my profile, obviously i dont think VX's are bad based on the riser pressure. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crazydiver 0 #11 October 28, 2005 Quoteplatform to platform You mean planform to planform? Cheers, Travis Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Canuck 0 #12 October 28, 2005 QuoteQuoteplatform to platform You mean planform to planform? No, no, no - It's the platform that gives a canopy a nice long recovery arch Canuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crazydiver 0 #13 October 28, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuoteplatform to platform You mean planform to planform? No, no, no - It's the platform that gives a canopy a nice long recovery arch Canuck thats funny...I was thinking about throwing the recovery "arch" in there too! Cheers, Travis Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cobaltdan 0 #14 October 28, 2005 "but it's a piece of shit..." why do you say this? .Daniel Preston <><> atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ruskie2 0 #15 October 31, 2005 Try pulling the front risers of a student canopy down...! The higher riser pressure is a good thing - especially on canopies like Velo's and VX's. I helped out on a test program a couple years back for a manufacturer who had a new elliptical 9 cell. Front riser pressure was real light - so light in fact that when you pulled them down (as you would any other canopy) the nose completely collapsed / folded under rest of the canopy! Scary shit - specially if you were at 800 feet!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RMURRAY 1 #16 October 31, 2005 QuoteTry pulling the front risers of a student canopy down...! The higher riser pressure is a good thing - especially on canopies like Velo's and VX's. I helped out on a test program a couple years back for a manufacturer who had a new elliptical 9 cell. Front riser pressure was real light - so light in fact that when you pulled them down (as you would any other canopy) the nose completely collapsed / folded under rest of the canopy! Scary shit - specially if you were at 800 feet!! how does it open, how does it fly and how does it land. those are the questions to discuss, not riser pressure... rm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Teixido 0 #17 October 31, 2005 Quote.....The Onyx has pretty low front riser pressure too, but it's a piece of shit... Canuck A comment like this probably says more about you than it says about he canopy. I jump an Onyx and i like it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Canuck 0 #18 October 31, 2005 Quote"but it's a piece of shit..." why do you say this? Just my opinion Dan, based on both jumping one and jumping with one under my own Velo. They've been on the market long enough now that if they were any good, nevermind superior to every other cross-braced canopy out there as per the marketing hype, we would be seeing them in competitions. Lemme guess - the reason we aren't seeing them in competitions is because Atair doesn't have a sponsored team. Three letters - JVX. Maybe piece of shit was strong wording. They open nice, but besides that, they just don't keep up. Canuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Canuck 0 #19 October 31, 2005 QuoteI jump an Onyx and i like it. Of course you do. Hope your profile is wrong though, because it really isn't a canopy for someone with 300 jumps - I think even Dan would agree with that... Canuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
roq 0 #20 October 31, 2005 Be sure that the Onix is the best cross braced canopy in the moment. The onix is very ahead of the other concepts of the current canopys If some top pilot to compete with the onix you can believe that will win even to the velo I am not sponsored by the atair! Only I know the modern canopys project and I admire the excellent work of the atair in the onix. roq Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
