ICARUS question

[thrillseek 0]

The question first started at Rantoul this year when an Icarus rep told me that my Omega 160 was actually much smaller in square footage than 160.
It was re-visited this evening at my DZ when we were all talking about wingloadings and etc...

Anyone know whether ICARUS actually has a different scale that they measure square footage by?? If so, I am curious what the actual square footage of my 169 is.

[AggieDave 6]

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=74425;search_string=icuras%20size;#74425

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[TALONSKY 0]

I e-mailed Icarus and explained that this had been talked about here and if they could give me a reply that I could post so here is Icarus's reply

The Safire-1 and the Omega are measured differently to PD canopies. As a rough guide a Safire-1 or Omega is about the same size as the next size down - eg A Safire 149 is about a 135. A Safire 119 is about a 109. Use an equation of 8%.
The Safire-2 and Omni (Omni supercedes Omega) are measured the same as
PD.

All other Icarus Canopies are measured the same as PD.

The reason for the difference is due to Precision measuring their canopies differently. Icarus have always measured the same as PD however when we originally commenced in the USA, Precision were building parachutes for us under license and were doing it using their size equations and not Icarus/PD's.

We have therefore had to wait to supercede these models to change the size equation.

Only the Safire and Omega were affected.

Blue skies
Simon

Icarus Canopies
USA: 1S671 Bender Lane, West Chicago, IL 60185, USA
Ph. (630) 562-2735, Fax (630) 231-4430
Europe: P.I. El Ramassar, c/ Vallés, s/n O8520,
Les Franqueses, Barcelona, SPAIN.
Ph. (34) 938 496 432, Fax (34) 938 497 971
www.icaruscanopies.com

[riggerrob 643]

Isn't it great how every canopy manufacturer uses a different method for measuring canopies?
Isn't capitalism awesome?

[diablopilot 2]

Precision Aerodynamics claims to use the measuring standards created by the PIA (Parachute Industry Association)

Performance Designs uses another method.

At the PIA Symposium 2000 in San Diego, CA Simon Mundell stated that in order to be more competitive in the High Perfomance Canopie market, Icarus Canopies USA would change which measuring method the used.

Examples of PIA Standards:
A PDR 126 measures 137 sq ft.
A Micro Raven 135 measures 134 sq ft.
A Sabre 135 measures 143 sq ft.
A Monarch 135 measures 140 sq ft.

Unfortunately the newer models of canopies are not listed yet.

In the end, manufactures can measure any way they choose because there is no regulating body to enforce standards in sizing.

Blue Skies,
-jp-

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[RichM 0]

Quote

Examples of PIA Standards:
A PDR 126 measures 137 sq ft.
A Micro Raven 135 measures 134 sq ft.
A Sabre 135 measures 143 sq ft.
A Monarch 135 measures 140 sq ft.

Unfortunately the newer models of canopies are not listed yet.

Is the current list avilable online?

Rich M

[diablopilot 2]

The information I listed was taken from the Canopy comparison chart in the Para-Gear Catalog, however the report to the PIA from which much of that information was collected is avaliable on the PIA website.
www.pia.com

look under the documents section for "TS-104" (I think.)

Blue Skies,
-jp-

[deaffreeflyer 0]

Damn! I am totally unaware of this issue. No one tolds me about it. My Safire's 144 and I thought it's little smaller than Sabre 150 but actual size (PD's measure) is about 132ft²? My first thought of wing load was 1.28 but I worked out it's possible my actual wing load is at least 1.4! No wonder why it's so small than Spectre 150 when I first saw it and compared to my friend's Spectre 150. Also my friends were surprised to find out how small it was. No wonder why it flied much faster, turn's more faster etc... I love this canopy - it's so much fun to fly. My exit weight is about 185-190lbs and did 220 jumps. I did 30 jumps on it so far, all my landing were most excellent - still find it trick to land. Quite interesting because I asked my instructors, staffs and many experienced skydivers about my downsize - they approved it and told me being careful but they didn't warn me it's actually smaller than 144. Maybe that's reason they didn't tell me cos I jumped on Safire 169 before. A friend asked me if he can try my 144 one day when he reached reasonable experience. I agreed a while ago but now I changed my mind and turned him down cos he did only 140 jumps - he's still jumping on 170. He is lucky cos I found out about this! It could end up badly for him and me.

[RichM 0]

Quote

The information I listed was taken from the Canopy comparison chart in the Para-Gear Catalog, however the report to the PIA from which much of that information was collected is avaliable on the PIA website.
www.pia.com

look under the documents section for "TS-104" (I think.)

Blue Skies,
-jp-

Thanks, I found it here http://www.pia.com/piapubs/archive_documents/tech_stds/PIA%20TS104-13%20Canopy%20Volume%20Study%20.html

Rich M

[TALONSKY 0]

Not alot of skydivers that do not fly an Omega or Safire know about this sizing issue( well for that fact unless you hear about it or call the factory many may not know about it either) Icarus is very up front about the sizing issue, if you call them and talk to them about the Safire 1 and Omega the sizing issue is the first thing they bring up. I am not sure why they never published anything on it but they always have brought it up when I have called them.
Kirk