180 to 270

[Helmut 0]

Hey guys curious question I have been doing 180s for about 350 - 400 jumps now on Jedei's to my current Katana 107. Most of my fellow jumpers that are swooping when they can are doing 270's. Is the transition from the 180 to 270 a huge one and what things should I look out for and guestiment how many should I do up high before attempting them. I like my FEMUR intact!!! One more question. I have a neptune but only use it for my set up altitude then go to my eyes for visual alititude. How many of you use the Neptune for both set up and starting your turn? Thanks

Helmut!!!

[AggieDave 6]

I use my Neptune for setup and for a rough estimate for my setup. Staring at your neptune will get you in trouble.

Whenever I get a new canopy, demo a canopy or change an approach, I practice practice practice up high, doing a good handful of altitude clear and pulls. Using my Neptune to help get a base line for how much altitude I loose during a turn of the same amount of time that I typically use for an approach. I then add some altitude to that for doing it on landing, working the altitude down slowly or tweaking my turn as needed a little bit at a time on each jump. There's nothing like clear and pulls at altitude to get an idea then solo hop-n-pops to dial it in.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[ccowden 0]

The transition should never be huge when learning high performance turns. You should be going from 180s to 200s to 220s... etc. Going from 180s right to 270s is not the way to go. Way too much changes from doing a 180 to a 270. Add degrees slowly and consistantly and never move on until you get each one down and are comfortable with approaches and initiation altitudes.

I personally don't think you should ever use an altimeter for when you should start your turn. In my opinion, I think it is a great tool as a reference and a tool to help with altitudes, but your eyes and sight picture should be what you are relying on with the added reference of digital.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Quote

I personally don't think you should ever use an altimeter for when you should start your turn.

I agree if this is used in reference of knowing that every jump is different and you'll never be at the same exact altitude on every turn. For myself, my digital altimeter tells me what sort of turn I need to make once I get to my setup point (or if I've totally botched my approach and have arrived at the setup point much lower and/or higher than my window and then I need to abort the swoop). But I think they are great tools for helping you get to your setup point. But once I start my turn, it's all about the sight picture and knowing when to get off of the risers and start your recovery.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[frost 1]

I think the instruments SHOULD be used at all times. Your eyes WILL let you down a lot more often then a digital (Neptune) will. Especially at a new DZ, where the picture you're used to is completely different. By NO means STARE at it. Glance at it for set up and initiation point, but DO use it.

Instruments are there for us to use. Why not use them? Airplane pilots use them. Most of the top canopy pilots use them...

SoFPiDaRF - School of Fast Progress in Downsizing and Radical Flying. Because nobody knows your skills better than you.

[ccowden 0]

You apparently totally missed my point. I meant that I think a digital is a great tool to use for reference and help with set up. But you should never totally rely only on them for initiation points.

I agree that they are great tools to use. I use one on every jump and use it extensively for setting up. But if you are just watching an altimeter for when to strt your turn, then you are only watching altitude. Ther is alot more than that going on for initiation of your turn. You need to be watching the conditions, the traffic, how deep to the target you are, how far or deep you are to where you want to turn. By using your sight picture, you take in MUCH more than just how high you are and your altitude is only a fraction of the things you need to be watching. Alot of times, due to a number of circumstances, you need to start your turn higher or a touch lower than that "perfect" altitude, so you need to be using your eyes for watching all these things. Not just how high you are.

[frost 1]

Apparently, i did... I thought we were talking JUST about usage and value of digital tools.

Otherwise - i agree on all counts, without a doubt.

SoFPiDaRF - School of Fast Progress in Downsizing and Radical Flying. Because nobody knows your skills better than you.

[Helmut 0]

I think we are all on the same page with use of the neptune but more curious about the transition between the different carving approaches. I do appreciate everyones response!

H

[superstu 0]

ccowden pretty much sumed a good way to transition from 180 to 270 so check out his post.

you also asked "how many should i do up high before attempting them?" however, no one can answer that but you. do as many as you think you need, then do a few more.

a couple of drills you can do though, and i think they've been mentioned before, is opening high and doing a few 270's and seeing how much altitude you lose. start your turn at an easy number to read, such as 4000ft or 7000ft.

also when you're up high, fly perpendicular to the runway and start your turn directly over the runway. this way you'll get to see what you're target looks like at the different angles you'll go through throughout your turn. you'll also be able to see if you're over/under rotating and if your offset to the runway after you've completed your turn. make sure you're above the minimum runway crossing altitude for your dz as well so you don't get in trouble.

one last thing, watch your traffic.

hope this helps

Slip Stream Air Sports
Do not go softly, do not go quietly, never back down

[Swooopa-x 0]

Good posts all round. Just to add:
At altitude ; do the practice 270's slow with lots of alt loss. note the alt lost.
Then do 'em medium rate - again note the loss.
Then do them quick so as to achieve min. loss - again note the alt you eat up.
Then do that all again using toggles to recover - play with agressive recoveries and gradual recoveries. Again note the numbers - write them down even - cant hurt and you may see some cool patterns emerge.
Then go do it all again with recoveries on the rears. Smooth ; firm ; and agressive . Again note all the numbers.
keep track of the other canopies and note where the plane is while it descends.
Make yourself work.
This kinda stuff will help you multi task better.
Take your time and enjoy.
The rewards will be there.

People dont care how much you know until they know how much you care.