Thoughts on CPC 'eligibility'

[ianmdrennan 2]

This is a cross post from my thread on www.canopypiloting.com but I wanted to get as much feedback as possible.

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So I've been thinking a little about the CPC for this year. One of the big questions I, and some other pilots who placed in the top 10 had, was whether or not to go for the Pro Qualifier. The more I think about it, the more I feel that there should be some sort of restriction to those who placed in the top 10 from the previous season. My thoughts are that if we want to encourage others to participate and give them their shot then it's not fair to sandbag the CPC repeatedly. Granted there are a lot of good pilots out there so maybe the standings would change dramatically each time but still - here's what I'm thinking:

If a pilot places in the top 10 in the CPC at the finals for the prior season they are not allowed to compete in the Regional CPC the following season (other than as a guest) UNLESS they fail the pro qualifier. That way we encourage those to move up to the PST but at the same time allow them to retain the ability to compete and try again if they fail the qualifier.

I know some people are worried about the cost of competing and travelling for the PST, so am I. HOWEVER, I don't think that allows any of those pilots the right to hold out slots from others who would actually go forward to the PST if they made the top 10.

Thoughts?

Blues,
Ian

Edit: Also remember that these pilots would be taking away people from the regional top 5 to go to National finals. I think it's important to make sure that regional candidates have a fair shot to make it to the National finals and if the 2nd-10th place candidates went back to their regions and competed again in the CPC, it would be a safe assumption that at least 5 of those people would place in the top 5 of their various regions - in effect taking away 5 other peoples chance to go to the finals and be in that kind of environment.

Performance Designs Factory Team

[davelepka 4]

That makes perfect sense. Those slots to advance to the PST are few and far between, and you really shouldn't clog the system with ringers who don't feel like stepping up to compete in the PST.

They should be allowed to compete as guests, right up to, and including the finals. There's really no money in the CPC aside from the finals, and once you get your shot at it, that should be it. From that point on, it's just for fun.

For a second, I thought 'eligibility' was about good grades or drug testing.

[ccowden 0]

I am not sure I follow this 100%, but wouldn't something other than placement in the top 10 make more sense as to whether or not you can get your Pro card? Something more along the lines of a proficiency card? Placement would obviously count for quite a bit, but there could also be a points system for number of competitions, scoring, placements in other comps, and other recognitions from Pro Piloting Organizations. Once you have earned the necessary points and completed a set checklist that has been signed off by governing persons, you would earn your right to go to the Pro Qualifier. If you choose to, that is up to you.

But if those top ten pilots come back to compete in the regionals, other pilots still have the chance to earn their Pro Qualifying points, regardless of whether or not the same top ten are there.

I just think there needs to be something in place, other than placing in the top 10 at Nationals, to be able to go to the Pro Qualifier.

[ntacfreefly 0]

Hey Chris,

Currently the way it works is that each region in the CPC sends it's top 5 pilots to the finals at the end of the season. From the finals the top 10 pilots are given the opportunity to try out for their pro card. The only pro card given away without a qualifier is for the person who wins the CPC Nationals. So, the only way to get into the Pro circuit (as of now) is to place in the top 10 of the CPC and pass the pro qualifier.

Blues.

To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. ~ Lao-Tzu

It's all good, they're my brothers ~ Mariann Kramer

[swoopster33 0]

This season the rules have changed slightly. EVERYONE that competes in at least three meets in their home district will receive an invitation to CPC Nationals.
See you in Colo Boys!
Jason

[ntacfreefly 0]

Thats great, but it still doesn't account for ringers in any way.

Top 10 pilots from the finals should not be allowed to compete, other than as guests IMO in the CPC and/or the finals for the following year unless they fail the pro qualifier.

To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. ~ Lao-Tzu

It's all good, they're my brothers ~ Mariann Kramer

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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This season the rules have changed slightly. EVERYONE that competes in at least three meets in their home district will receive an invitation to CPC Nationals.

Of course getting money and time off of work could help keep the numbers down, but doesn't this new policy have the potential to setup too big of a field at the CPC finals? Not to say that a few more than the 30 people we had last year could have been accomodated. But what happens if 100+ people qualified and showed up? Would you be able to hold a swoop meet with such a large competitor field?

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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One of the big questions I, and some other pilots who placed in the top 10 had, was whether or not to go for the Pro Qualifier.

I'll take yours or any of the other's top ten slots to qualify if they're not interested (of course I realize the powers in charge wouldn't let this happen since I wasn't one of the top ten and many other non-top ten peeps are also in the same boat). Besides building some good competition experience (#1 mandate of the CPC if I'm not mistaken), wasn't the goal of competiting on the CPC to be able to qualify as a top ten finisher to take the pro qualifier?

Disclaimer: of course thanks to the unjumpable shitty weather here on the wet and rainy Pacific Northwest as well as the fact that my savings are rapidly vanishing, I'm beginning to wonder how much swooping skills I may have lost the last 3 months since I left CO. So could I qualify if I even had the opportunity to qualify? Of course I won't be taking the pro qualifier, so my lack of currency is a moot point.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[ntacfreefly 0]

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wasn't the goal of competiting on the CPC to be able to qualify as a top ten finisher to take the pro qualifier?

Thats exactly the point of the post.

To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. ~ Lao-Tzu

It's all good, they're my brothers ~ Mariann Kramer

[marks 0]

this is an edited version of the pm I sent ian, we have discussed this today. he said it would be shitty of me and i would be a sandbagger if I wnet pro`..

I took out the "fuck you Ian" type stuff.... J/K

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I agree, but the rules are the rules. It isnt sandbagging if your following the rules.

If I dont do the CPC this year then I dont compete. that is stupid.

I agree the rules should be changed, but there isnt any change, and this will bring one.

If you think it is shitty, then fine thats your opinion.
I dont think it is shitty, it is just me doing what I want to do, compete.

They want me to pay to run a qualifier! then If I dont run a qualifier they want me in the CPC, jim wants us in the cpc this year. and unless they say, ok your pro, then im an amateur. plain and simple.

I have nothing to gain by going pro, except to say im pro, and personally I dont have anything to gain or prove by going pro, so Im thinking of doing the CPC again.

And if the peeps think im sandbagging, they should look in the mirror and think more positive, nobody likes a hater, especially me.

if we compete in the cpc this year, we will bring the skill level in our reigion up. they will only gain. they might loose money, but they will gain experience, look at the other "positive" side of the coin.

anyway, if a pro meet comes around here, or there is one somewhere that I go, then I will join. but im not going out of my way.

we had our asses handed to us by some pro's in the beginning. and now it is our turn. It only made us better, and im glad it was that way, and so will they.

peeps have been calling me a sandbagger for a couple years now, and what ive learned from it is simple.

so, if im sandbagging, then why am I not a "pro" now?

they keep changin the fuckin rules year after year, I should have been "pro" last year.


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ok, so I didnt edit it at all, and it is MY pm, so I can post it f i want.

[davelepka 4]

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I have nothing to gain by going pro, except to say im pro, and personally I dont have anything to gain or prove by going pro, so Im thinking of doing the CPC again.

Yeah me too. But since I know I'm not going pro, why not open the door for a guy who really wants to go all the way?

We both know that a guy whos got the talent and skill can get edged out by any one of the 'sandbaggers', and will have to stay home at the end of the season.


I mean, if you're not going pro, whats the point of competing at all? Fun? Personal fulfillment? Both of those are reason enough to show up and throw down your best, but how does keeping the other guy down get you further toward your goals?

Just because it may say 'guest' next to your name, evryone who got beat knows they got beat. But if those guys want to take it to the next step, and you've taken it as far as you want to go, why stand in their way?

[chayes12 0]

Ian Bobo kicked all of our assed two years ago in this league down here, now it's all you guys.
So let's go. It's your turn.

All registered CPC members who attend 3 meets are eligible to go to Colorado this year. It is not only the top 5.

[marks 0]

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I mean, if you're not going pro, whats the point of competing at all? Fun? Personal fulfillment? Both of those are reason enough to show up and throw down your best, but how does keeping the other guy down get you further toward your goals?

Its competition, thats what happens.
If Im to good to be in the cpc, then give me my pro card, I will gladly take it.

otherwise, im in the CPC. per the rules.

you will only gain from competing with someone who is better, or someone who challenges you.

I dont have the funds to travel to the meets to compete against the peeps I would like to compete against.

I got my ass handed to me, and got better. learned alot. now it is my turn to hand some ass to you

[marks 0]

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Ian Bobo kicked all of our assed two years ago in this league down here, now it's all you guys.
So let's go. It's your turn.

All registered CPC members who attend 3 meets are eligible to go to Colorado this year. It is not only the top 5.

no shit, Ian bobo handed my ass to me. then asked me to buy a video!

[marks 0]

how about this,

top 10 pilots, who dont go pro and stay in the cpc for the second year, run 5 ft gates and still acru points, if they qualify for finals, they run 5ft gates. if they get top 10 again for the second year in a row, 2nd year on 5 footers, then they get there pro card handed to them.

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[davelepka 4]

Thats not bad. Considering that there's no money in swooping, they really do need some additional avenues to get into the PST.

You're already looking at a big investment just to compete in the PST. If you take all the guys with the time and money for the PST, and then make it so they have to do a CPC season, plus make the finals, plus get top ten in the finals, you're really going to weed out alot of good competitors.

I know they have a good line up now, but give it a few years, and between burn out, wives, and babies, it's going to be a pretty thin roster unless they can make it more accessable.

I'm not saying lower the bar, just the number of hoops in front of the bar.

[chachi 0]

^ pretty bang on post.

[ntacfreefly 0]

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top 10 pilots, who dont go pro and stay in the cpc for the second year, run 5 ft gates and still acru points, if they qualify for finals, they run 5ft gates. if they get top 10 again for the second year in a row, 2nd year on 5 footers, then they get there pro card handed to them.

Doesn't sound unreasonable to me. Seems like a bit of a logistical nightmare but still at least it changes the rules for 'repeaters'

To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. ~ Lao-Tzu

It's all good, they're my brothers ~ Mariann Kramer

[superstu 0]

all these posts are very disconcerning.

you guys say you have nothing to gain by going pro? let me ask you something then, who will you learn more from more? JC or JayMo kickin your ass in pro? or you kickin someone else's ass in amature?

for me I want to continually improve my canopy piloting ability and the only way i see that happen right now is surrounding myself with the best, and the best appear to be on the pro circuit, so i'm going there.

Mark you also say you want to help out the next pilots coming up for next year, why not go pro and share what you learn from the pro's to the next up and comers? Luke Aikens came to one of our events and it was great because we got to compare our abilities to the pro's, it benefited all of us way more than watching video's of pro's or watching from the sidelines cause they were in the same environment as we were.
next year i plan to go "pro" primarily because i want to advance my skills and reach personal goals. however, when i compete at the pro level then come back to the CPC as a guest it will give the people in my region a better understanding of where they are. plus, there are only 3 "pro's" in the whole Oregon/Washington region so having 1 more couldn't hurt.

these are just my thoughts on the whole thing.

Slip Stream Air Sports
Do not go softly, do not go quietly, never back down

[marks 0]

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Mark you also say you want to help out the next pilots coming up for next year, why not go pro and share what you learn from the pro's to the next up and comers?

I cant afford both//

i have an agenda, you will see soon.

[ccowden 0]

The problem is the current system of placing in events to turn Pro. The CPC is a competitive canopy piloting circuit, and if the same guys want to come back and kick ass, then they should be able to. That IS what competiton is about. No one should be "forced" to turn pro.

However, I guess I don't see why you couldn't have seperate classes among those placings. Those who have already earned their quailying spot and those who have not. Call them guests, call the whatever, I don't think it would take much more than an asterix by their name. This would allow the top 5 without the asterix to still qualify themselves.

Once you have earned the right to pro qualify, you should be able to do what you want with it. Not everyone competeing in the CPC has an ultimate goal of going pro. If they don't want to turn pro, then they should still be allowed to compete in the CPC for whatever personal goals they have.

I still think a points system would work best where you would earn points by competeing towards getting an invitation to the pro qualifier.

[marks 0]

your a much better speaker than me.

thanks.

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[ccowden 0]

Well, I can see the points from both sides and I agree there needs to be a way for new pilots to get there pro qualifier without having to continuously try to beat guys who have already done so but don't care to go pro.

That said, I also agree that the CPC is a competitive circuit and should not have the sole purpose of being a stepping stone to go pro.

I think your point would be better received if you lose the "Fuck you, those are the rules and if you don't like it, tough shit" attitude and try harder to be a productive part of the solution, which would benefit canopy piloting as a whole.

[marks 0]

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I think your point would be better received if you lose the "Fuck you, those are the rules and if you don't like it, tough shit"

LOL.... \


ya, i know. I get my panties in a wad sometimes...

Its just that peeps want the peeps that are going to beat them out of the way, instead of stepping up and being a winner.

that gets under my skin a bit, ive worked hard to become what I am, and ive got a long way to go. If they think it is going to be a cakewalk, they got another thing coming.

ive gotten my ass kicked many time's. I had a chance, and was in the running for first place at the finals, got over amped, and fucked it up. so, now it is time to fix the things that i did wrong.

there is no reason why I shouldnt be in the cpc next year.

and there is no reason why any one of these up and comers couldnt "step up to the plate" and take me out.

[chayes12 0]

***top 10 pilots, who dont go pro and stay in the cpc for the second year, run 5 ft gates and still acru points, if they qualify for finals, they run 5ft gates. if they get top 10 again for the second year in a row, 2nd year on 5 footers, then they get there pro card handed to them.

***Doesn't sound unreasonable to me. Seems like a bit of a logistical nightmare but still at least it changes the rules for 'repeaters'


This sounds interesting....
The deal is that everyone who joins the CPC and attends at least 3 meets is eligible to go to Colorado. Maybe we should keep points for the guys who are hitting the 5 foot gates and they would be eligible to go back to CO and still be competing for the regional championship and the 2006 Belt. It would be great practice for the pro comps??