ok for real this time any info on the JSX

[sight_burner 0]

Ok now I know that Jim is a little bit on the messed up/recovery side of things but the new JSX is driving me crazy. I was on canopypiloting.com and couldn't find anything there, on top of digging threw these forums. but to rap up does anyone have any insight to this new wing or am I beating a dead horse???

I don't care about fame I just want people to know my name qote ( Andrew Cebuhar)

the thread is dead

[Spizzzarko 0]

The jSx is a highly modified prototype canopy that will probably not see production for several years. Most people have not achieved anywhere near the amount of performance that the current canopies on the market are capable of. The Z bracing will be amazing when manufacturers offer it, but it will probably not be on the scene for many years.

[proswooper 2]

Jim and the daedalus crew are focusing mainly on the JVX right now which is doing an amazing job on the circuit. Finally giving the PD boys a run for their money.

The JSX is on the shelf for the near future.

If you have any questions about the canopy itself please feel free to PM me.

All the best

Paul

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but to rap up does anyone have any insight to this new wing or am I beating a dead horse

yup and
yup.

[CanopyPiloting 0]

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Ok now I know that Jim is a little bit on the messed up/recovery side of things but the new JSX is driving me crazy. I was on canopypiloting.com and couldn't find anything there, on top of digging threw these forums. but to rap up does anyone have any insight to this new wing or am I beating a dead horse???

I am alive and well. The JSX is as real as it gets and was designed long before PD's "Z bracing" was ever announced. The PD factory team saw a JSX (45 cell) prototype in my team room at Perris before PD announced the "Z bracing" at the PIA.

I wish I could tell you more about the JSX but good things come to those who wait. I hope PD comes out with a canopy with "Z bracing" soon. See you guys on the tour or circuit!

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I hope PD comes out with a canopy with "Z bracing" soon.

me also, what is it going to take for that to happen? anyone up for the challenge?

[swooper81 0]

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I hope PD comes out with a canopy with "Z bracing" soon.

why do you want them to come out with their canopy? seems like the velocity is still very competitive, i mean:
* the distance record is on a velo
* the world cup is held by a velo flier
* the winner of nationals was on a velo
* and the top 3 spots on the PST points board from 2005 are velo fliers.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Velo's are awesome canopies. But are these people you speaking of really jumping stock Velos? I'm no expert and I've only started jumping a JVX and still have much to learn about it. But I can tell you that it is a very smooth and responsive wing to be flying and it's fast.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

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I hope PD comes out with a canopy with "Z bracing" soon.

why do you want them to come out with their canopy? seems like the velocity is still very competitive, i mean:
* the distance record is on a velo
* the world cup is held by a velo flier
* the winner of nationals was on a velo
* and the top 3 spots on the PST points board from 2005 are velo fliers.

like I said, anyone up for the challenge?

yhe JVX is a bad ass wing, a full time pilot underneath it, they will go far this season.

[swooper81 0]

here is another question:

it's been said that the z-braced technology and jim's JSX is too advanced for the current pilot, how do they know? will they wait till people stop hitting the ground on a regular basis to release it? i mean what skills do a pilot have to have before they can have this new products, if they ever do go public?

[davelepka 4]

Was anyone really ready for the X-brace canopies in general? When the first FX's came to the US, all that was around were Stilettos and Batwings.

I think the releasing new canopies is based on several factors. I'm sure development is one of them, and from PD's track record, look at the Katana, and it's delayed release (the 135 and 150 are still MIA).

The other biggie is the market conditions. PD is having no problems selling Velos, and winning comps with them, so why would they 'one up' themselves with a better wing. It makes better business sense to hold the Z braced canopy until the Velo runs out of steam, and then let the Z brace loose, and have it's day.

It's all just speculation. The Z brace may be un-flyable, under a patent, or un-buildable for under $3000. Allthough, the $3000 thing should be a moot point in the next 6 to 8 years when that won't be too far off the cost of other canopies.

[jenkincb00 0]

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The other biggie is the market conditions. PD is having no problems selling Velos, and winning comps with them, so why would they 'one up' themselves with a better wing. , and then let the Z brace loose, and have it's day.

I with you on that one, but more from the business than the winning, as long as ppl are still buying velocities their not going to release the Z-brace, so stop buying them, we'll force it out of them

It make sense, I don't know what R&D on a canopy cost and bringing it to market and advertising and all that other jazz but I'm sure its a pretty penny...their going to ride on the back of the velocity until it can carry them no longer, the second Jim releases his new canopy and it takes away from their profit margin they will introduce their Z-brace to the market....I reference the Katana to the crossfire2

[RMURRAY 1]

agreed I'll bet PD will not release first. they seem to always follow rather than lead.

rm

[isaiah85 0]

Actually, the market for a canopy in that range is a lot smaller then you think. The percentage of people flying X-braced is something like 5%. (I know it seems like more, especially if you spend a lot of time at bigger DZ’s) So, trying to go higher then X-braced in performance, price and pack volume, we could probably expect something like 1% or less of people to fly it. Really the market is not ready for the Z-braced canopy.

It would simply cost way more to develop then anyone could justify, just to take over 1% of an already very small market.

Later,
Isaiah

[raymod2 1]

That is a myopic view of things. How much money does Honda spend on designing a motorcycle that will only be ridden by one person in a handful of races? The technology trickles down to other models and a successful racing bike will generate increased sales of street bikes.

When an amateur CPC pilot broke the world distance record under a JVX that should have been a wake-up call to PD. They can't rest on their laurels and expect to stay on top forever.

[ntacfreefly 0]

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When an amateur CPC pilot broke the world distance record under a JVX that should have been a wake-up call to PD. They can't rest on their laurels and expect to stay on top forever.

Huh, why? Scott Roberts smashed the JVX record (on the same run), Jay did the same x2 (once on that run and even further on the next run with LESS downwind) and John Judy had a monsterous run that smashed it too albeit not counting because of a 1/2 a foot verticle. All three flying velos.

Don't get me wrong, the JVX is obviously a good canopy. It has done a lot to level the playing field and I genuinely hope it lights a fire under other manufacturers asses to build something even faster than is currently available, but I keep hearing the above example used and it really doesn't hold much water. Fact is, that 3 other velos out distanced it every time.

I'm expecting to see great things from the JVX this season, but I don't think we're going to see any 'runaway wins' either.

edit: I've said it before and I'll say it again. The pilot is going to make the most difference ESPECIALLY this year with the weight restrictions. Not a velo, not a jvx and not a rds. Factors, sure - deciding factors, I don't think so. Personally I think it's going to be a boatload of fun and a technically challenging year. I can't wait
Blues,
Ian

To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. ~ Lao-Tzu

It's all good, they're my brothers ~ Mariann Kramer

[davelepka 4]

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When an amateur CPC pilot broke the world distance record under a JVX that should have been a wake-up call to PD. They can't rest on their laurels and expect to stay on top forever.

I'm not sure how much influence competition results will have on overall sales. If X-brace canopies are only 5% of the market, 95% of PD's customers are buying non-competition canopies. Even if the JVX came to light as the supreme swoop machine, how will that effect that sales of the Sabre2 for example?

One step further, how many of the 5% are buying Velos becuase they win comps? I like my Velo regardless of comp results, as do others. Not to mention the JVX might not be a good choice for everyday jumping (faster line wear and all). I know my Velo could go faster with different lines and an RDS, but thats beyond my needs, and subtracts from the functionality of the canopy.

Also, the JVX is a fortune. I can get a new Velo for dealer price somewhere. No discounts for the JVX.

So we're looking at a very small percentage of buyers who will pick up the JVX over the Velo based on competition results.

[frost 1]

Invalid on all acounts. First, that was done at 5K ASL - on steroids if you will. Everyone was flying mad distances. Second, the PD pilot set the new record MUCH better then the one set by the amature pilot on JVX

SoFPiDaRF - School of Fast Progress in Downsizing and Radical Flying. Because nobody knows your skills better than you.

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Huh, why? Scott Roberts smashed the JVX record (on the same run), Jay did the same x2 (once on that run and even further on the next run with LESS downwind) and John Judy had a monsterous run that smashed it too albeit not counting because of a 1/2 a foot verticle. All three flying velos.

they sure did, but none of them were flying stock velo's.
plus the size difference in those 3 velo's was 16 sq feet larger on each velo. plus the fact that each pilot had at least 40 lbs lead. I was only wearing 27 or 29 lbs I dont remember. I'm not 100% on each of the other pilots loading, but I think 40 lbs is on the light side.

someone on a similar size JVX with a similar loading, with the skill to fly it, would have smoked everyone. By FAR.

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That is a myopic view of things. How much money does Honda spend on designing a motorcycle that will only be ridden by one person in a handful of races? The technology trickles down to other models and a successful racing bike will generate increased sales of street bikes.

When an amateur CPC pilot broke the world distance record under a JVX that should have been a wake-up call to PD. They can't rest on their laurels and expect to stay on top forever.

P.D. stays on top because of the way they have run there business, It is a great skydiving company for just about every skydiver out there, with exception to the pilots that want to be the best of the best. they are lacking in that department by only allowing there sponsored pilots to have the high energy low drag setups. everyone else can only get the stock off the shelf stuff, and is forced to choose aftermarket performance mods.

I will make this statement and stand behind it 100%.

when it comes to competition swooping, the JVX is the highest performing canopy on the market.

I say that without bias of a sponsor, and also have put at least 300 jumps on each crossbraced canopy out there, besides the FX.

P.D. will be tough to beat, for plenty of reasons, none of them are "because" of the velocity. although it is a great canopy.

[ntacfreefly 0]

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they sure did, but none of them were flying stock velo's.

The only difference on Scott and Johns velo was the HMA line set type, you know the same on the JVX has.

You loaded around 2.5 for that distance run if memory serves me correctly and so did they.

Look, no one's saying the JVX isn't good, it obviously is, but there's no wing ON THE MARKET out there that's going to run away from the others. It's more piloting than anything else.

Put Jay on the JVX or the Velo and my guess is that you'll see very similar results.

Nothing is going to run away 'by far'. This season will show if I'm wrong or not but I highly doubt we're going to see any wing be miles ahead of the rest, and honestly I think that's a good thing in the competition arena. It's really cool that things are relatively level right now with the new weight classes, pretty much all wings being comparable, etc. It's always been about pilot skill but placing even more emphasis on it is awesome IMO.

edit: Back onto topic. Regardless I hope the wing does really well. I think the more performance each manufacturer brings to the table, the better for all of us regardless which wing we fly. Long as there are people. and companies, pushing to develop new ideas (even if they don't work) to continuously bring up the level of equipment - I'm happy, and excited and I can't wait to keep watching who does what I hope Aer0dyne gets on the scene too, the more players, the more interesting ideas we'll see. After all, while I understand these companies are trying to make money, we're all just interested in the best final products....right!

Blues,
Ian

To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. ~ Lao-Tzu

It's all good, they're my brothers ~ Mariann Kramer

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Nothing is going to run away 'by far'. This season will show if I'm wrong or not but I highly doubt we're going to see any wing be miles ahead of the rest, and honestly I think that's a good thing in the competition arena. It's really cool that things are relatively level right now with the new weight classes, pretty much all wings being comparable, etc. It's always been about pilot skill but placing even more emphasis on it is awesome IMO.

because there isnt many people jumping them yet.

I'm willing to bet if Paul was there on his JVX 2.0 96, you might have seen something different.

yes the lines on the JVX were the same as the lines on those velo's. but , my lines ARE STOCK.

It was also an 87 square foot canopy, and yes I was loading close to 2.5. I can only fit a MAX 29 lbs in my weight belt, It is only made to hold 25.

having experiance on this canopy now, Im going to stand behind the statement that somone with a similar sized JVX loaded similar 2.4-2.5, It would have been a HUGE "by far" difference. probably another 75 feet, and that is me thinking conservative. I think it could be more than that.

[raymod2 1]

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Even if the JVX came to light as the supreme swoop machine, how will that effect that sales of the Sabre2 for example?

The idea is that the success of the JVX will cause people to buy a Safire2 instead of a Sabre2. Unfortunately the branding is confusing so people won't necessarily make the connection between Icarus and Daedalus.

[Canuck 0]

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That is a myopic view of things. How much money does Honda spend on designing a motorcycle that will only be ridden by one person in a handful of races? The technology trickles down to other models and a successful racing bike will generate increased sales of street bikes.

When an amateur CPC pilot broke the world distance record under a JVX that should have been a wake-up call to PD. They can't rest on their laurels and expect to stay on top forever.

I disagree. If Honda spends a bunch of money developing a racing bike, I doubt that there is much trickle down in technology or sales into their street cruisers, dirt bikes, scooters, etc. That's where PDs bread and butter are: Spectres, Sabre 2s, etc. and x-bracing hasn't even trickled down into these canopies, never mind z-bracing.

Last Summer I heard straight from the horses mouth that as soon as the PD team stops winning, there will be a new canopy over their heads. Until then, it makes no real sense to put the Velocity on the back burner.


Canuck

[Canuck 0]

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Im going to stand behind the statement that somone with a similar sized JVX loaded similar 2.4-2.5, It would have been a HUGE "by far" difference. probably another 75 feet, and that is me thinking conservative. I think it could be more than that.

Not to be a nay-sayer, but question for you - has Jim not competed at a few events, including the 2004 WC, under a JVX? Certainly you would consider him a full time and very proficient pilot, yet I don't think he has ever gone anywhere near these kind of distances. I have no idea what size of wing he is flying, or how much weight he is packing, but presumably he knows where the sweet spot is.

Canuck