NoRules 0 #1 May 8, 2006 I know there are lots of threads on this but I've tried to sort out all the info and I figured I might as well ask again, especially since a lot of the info is old and I'm not sure if there have been mods since then. I've read from posts that the Samurai flies "smaller" than the vengeance. Does that mean faster, or more responsive, or both? Also, some posts say that they are very similar whereas others say that the Samurai is more aggresive. Thoughts? Thanks! ~ * Life Has No Rules * ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dionysus 0 #2 May 8, 2006 I have owned both a Vengeance 170 and a Sam 170 (1.4wl) and in no particular order here are my thoughts. Keep in mind I'm not a swooper and there are many more people with more knowledge that can also answer this question. In fact you could even get in touch with Brian Germain at Big Air Sportz as he is the one who designed them. Nothing like getting the info strait from the horses mouth. Anyway, here is what I found. The vengeance has much longer lines and is not as quick on the toggles. However, it does have a much longer recovery arc. I would add that it is quite easy to keep the Sam in a dive though. The Sam openings are significantly better than the Vengeance. On heading openings with my Vengeance were a rare occurence. The Sam has much better long spot abilities. The Vengeance comes out of the sky much faster at full flight and rear risers/brakes are not as effective as the Sam when you need to get back from a long spot. I thought the Vengeance had a much more powerful landing flare. I know many people will disagree with me on this, but that was my impression. Overall if I were to buy another one I would probably go with the Vengeance. It has a very smooth feel, except the openings, and was just more fun to fly for me. So that's what I think and it is probably worth about what you paid for it . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildWilly 0 #3 May 8, 2006 I have a Sam 136 ( WL 1.6) and have about 600 jumps on it. Have jumped a Vengence 107(WL 1.9) a few times. Didn't like the opening of the vengence. Not very predictable. Could be the difference in WL. Longer lines than a Sam making for a longer recovery arc. You get used to what you fly and I like having the ability to 'dig out' if needed. I love my Sam. In 600 jumps I have had line twists only a handful of times.It flew straight, kicked out, it's all good. Never had a "hard opening" Never had to cut away.( knock on wood) Can get back from long spots easy. It's very responsive and with the air locks handles tough wind conditions with only a few bumps. It also puts down some great swoops.( enough to keep my hair on end ) Brian builds some great canopies and puts on a great course to teach you how to fly them (other canopies too). Blue Skies, Willygrowing old is inevitable, growing up is optional. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
twnsnd 1 #4 May 9, 2006 Uhhhh, shit, just send me an that avatar enlarged and maybe then I'll be able to concentrate on your question. -We are the Swoophaters. We have travelled back in time to hate on your swoops.- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NoRules 0 #5 May 9, 2006 thanks for the insight guys! i jumped the samurai last weekend and really loved it- just wanted to see what people who have jumped both thought... it sounds like the vengeance openings are pretty twitchy and i loved the way the samurai opened and that's something that i look for in a canopy so i think i'll be playing with the color scheme and buying one this week :) ~ * Life Has No Rules * ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dharma1976 0 #6 May 9, 2006 Quotethanks for the insight guys! i jumped the samurai last weekend and really loved it- just wanted to see what people who have jumped both thought... it sounds like the vengeance openings are pretty twitchy and i loved the way the samurai opened and that's something that i look for in a canopy so i think i'll be playing with the color scheme and buying one this week :) Vengnce openigns do not have to be twitchy... just stop pulling the tail around too much when rolling your tail and stop rolling so much on the tail which pulls your d lines as well... my friend was having issues with his recently and he worked it out.... a little less of a nose shove in than his old sabre and then less of a tail roll for not pulling the d lines.... Davehttp://www.skyjunky.com CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jogi 0 #7 May 9, 2006 Samurai is more like the Katana or the Katana is more like the Samurai...... ;o) Vengeance is not the canopy to be compered with Samurai. //M Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
twnsnd 1 #8 May 9, 2006 Ok look...this is nothing personal to anyone, but I am tired of the Katana being compared to these other canopies. It is in a class by itself. No other non-crossbraced canopy can match it. If you disagree, then you have not flown one or not flown one well. -We are the Swoophaters. We have travelled back in time to hate on your swoops.- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob.dino 1 #9 May 9, 2006 QuoteOk look...this is nothing personal to anyone, but I am tired of the Katana being compared to these other canopies. It is in a class by itself. No other non-crossbraced canopy can match it. If you disagree, then you have not flown one or not flown one well. That's a pretty strong statement to make without anything to back it up. Why, exactly, is the Katana in a class of its own? How many jumps have you got on one? How many on a Samurai/XF2/Mamba of the same size? What qualifies you to make that claim? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cyrus79 0 #10 May 10, 2006 I have about 350 jumps on a Samurai 105 and loved everything about it, the openings are quick yet comfortable at the same time (less altitude loss), and it swoops better than the Jedei. A friend of mine has a Vengence and, like previous posts, he hates the openings and finds it way too ground hungry... My 2 cents Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NoRules 0 #11 May 11, 2006 thanks for the input! this is what i was looking for... i can't wait! ~ * Life Has No Rules * ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jurgencamps 0 #12 May 11, 2006 1500 jumps on a vengeance 120, WL 1,65. Openings were ok (even with very sloppy packing), even with a twist (3 times) it flew straight, no cutaways. Flies great and lands very good, dives very well (maybe not as good as the katana, but I can not compare them because I jump a katana 107 now and not a katana 120). Have never flown a samurai. I do not recommend a vengeance with a WL below 1,4 or above 1,8. I think that at those WL's, there are other canopies which are better suited. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snap270 0 #13 May 14, 2006 I fly a Sam 136 at about 1.8. Openings are great...stay on top of 'em and they won't mess with you too much. If the spot is long, react ASAP...my canopy seems to just fall out of the sky at full flight. Rears, breaks, whatever suits the situation - it's all good. But it maintains a dive well, so keep you eyes on the ground.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dharma1976 0 #14 May 14, 2006 okay I just put in 4 jumps on a samruai 120... I dig it...but now I might just go try those same techniques I learned jumping the sam....and apply it to my crossfire and see what happens...and then go back and try it again... Davehttp://www.skyjunky.com CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
