Vectracide 0 #27 June 27, 2006 Quotejust cut them off... I'm just kidding. The amount of drag reduction would be insignificant on the larger canopies. So, in regards to removing the stabilizers on conventional 9-cells, at what size would the canopy see some benefit? <107, or are we talking <90? But then again, wingload must carry some consideration here as well. The little 110lb. girl flying a 107 or so wouldn't see the same benefit as lets say me under the same 107 loaded at 1.8, right? Then there is the whole being able to take the canopy terminal as well. I have heard that it is not advisable to do so with canopies that have no stabilizers...... Fiction? ------------------------------ Controlled and Deliberate..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob.dino 1 #28 June 27, 2006 QuoteThen there is the whole being able to take the canopy terminal as well. I have heard that it is not advisable to do so with canopies that have no stabilizers...... Fiction? At least two members of the Aussie 8-way team Deton8 jump JVXes - Michael Vaughan and George Attard. Michael is also competing at the WCCP in Wien (Vienna). George has represented in the past. The Aussie 4-way team Airtite also have a couple of JVXes. I'm pretty sure they take them to terminal. Regularly . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks 0 #29 June 27, 2006 QuoteThen there is the whole being able to take the canopy terminal as well. I have heard that it is not advisable to do so with canopies that have no stabilizers...... Fiction? there really is no reason why I wouldn't take mine to terminal. I jump it as an every day canopy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 4 #30 June 27, 2006 QuoteI jump it as an every day canopy. So do both of the guys on Wicked Liquid. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cessna54tango 0 #31 June 27, 2006 ah, yea, my bad your right. anyways, well thats what it is. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vectracide 0 #32 June 27, 2006 Ok, so I guess I was thinking of the JLX, and not the JVX. I have heard of it being done with special sliders and such, but this canopy isn't what were talking about here... My question still stands unaswered.....at what wingload and or canopy size would it be beneficial for having no stabilizers? is this a viable option for canopies such as the highest performing 9-cells, such as the Katana? Kolla or Jim S. ? ------------------------------ Controlled and Deliberate..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks 0 #33 June 27, 2006 I don't think you going to get your answer, because I really dont think there is one. it is to reduce drag, the faster you go the more drag has an effect. I guess it depends on what your looking for. you wont get any benefit from drag reduction to that extent unless your a top pilot. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #34 June 27, 2006 On what size do you gain speed using RDS? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nicknitro71 0 #35 June 27, 2006 Quoteyou wont get any benefit from drag reduction to that extent unless your a top pilot. Not true, IMO I put a RDS on my ragged-out E-mod Alpha 99. The difference is remarkable. Not so much the landing part but the overall feel of flight. There is a feeling of "clean flight" that it's really hard to put into words. The only problem is that my tarp with the RDS opens like crap at terminal.Memento Audere Semper 903 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks 0 #36 June 27, 2006 I know what your saying, but removing a bag and pilot chute is completely different than removing stabilizers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cessna54tango 0 #37 June 27, 2006 yea, but thats not the rds' fault. remember that stability thing at pull time nick? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nicknitro71 0 #38 June 27, 2006 QuoteI know what your saying, but removing a bag and pilot chute is completely different than removing stabilizers Hear that Smizo...next project will be to remove the stabilizers on my Alpha...Memento Audere Semper 903 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cessna54tango 0 #39 June 27, 2006 ok, take them off then ill think about jumping it. but now at least youre on the right track with the rds. speaking of rds, evil here made me a slick little elastic pouch on the back of my bag to put the rds lines in instead of shoving them in the bag with the canopy. not sure if it makes a difference but it looks pretty cute Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob.dino 1 #40 June 28, 2006 QuoteQuoteI know what your saying, but removing a bag and pilot chute is completely different than removing stabilizers Hear that Smizo...next project will be to remove the stabilizers on my Alpha... I'd love to hear how that changes things - could you keep us updated? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cessna54tango 0 #41 June 28, 2006 he was joking about that, but now you gave the sick bastard food for thought. nick lets chop those babys off this week! and if it doesnt work out we can sew on pink ones to match your purple alpha! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 4 #42 June 28, 2006 QuoteI know what your saying, but removing a bag and pilot chute is completely different than removing stabilizers. You do know that Joe Bennet took the stabilizers off of his Velo, don't you? This, on top of his RDS and very-small Technora lines. Maybe he will logon and post what he thinks about that mod. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks 0 #43 June 28, 2006 Quotealso price can be lower but i have to take some parts out ya I know, I saw it. but he only took about half of it off. from what i remember, he didnt notice much. you can't take it all off unless you locate the slider stop somewhere else so the slider doesn't pinch onto the canopy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spizzzarko 0 #44 June 28, 2006 I don't see why you couldn't remove all of the stabilizers on a velocity if you made teh slider stops like they do n the JVX. Honestly though, I think this mod would not really help most of the populous out there, because I'm sure that 90% of the swoopers can refine their technique and get better results than modifying their canopies. The velocity fly's pretty damn well stock. If you take the slider, bag and pilot chute off, it's even cleaner. I like the Technora lines though! Grantious the Destroyer! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nicknitro71 0 #45 June 28, 2006 QuoteHonestly though, I think this mod would not really help most of the populous out there, because I'm sure that 90% of the swoopers can refine their technique and get better results than modifying their canopies. Very true. However for some bored souls out there butching canopies is where it's at Memento Audere Semper 903 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spizzzarko 0 #46 June 28, 2006 I guess when Joe Bennet is not building gay houses for people he gets bored, and slices his Velocity up. I wonder if it affects the openings, and other flight characteristics of the canopy. You would think that the canopy would possibly begin to slip during turns. By slipping I mean that the canopy would slide sideways during the turn. Your pilot chute would be a good indicator of this. If the pilot chute is not directly behind the canopy and it is trailing off to one side or the other , then you are not in coordinated flight. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nicknitro71 0 #47 June 28, 2006 The stabilizers do several things: -They trap some air from escaping to the sides during deployment making the slider descent slower. -They reduce wingtip vorticies thus reducing drag and increasing the efficiency of the tarp. -They offer a convenient pace to put the slider stops. The vast majority of paragliders don't have stabilizers but then it could be argued that because the wing is so bowed with very narrow ends they do not need any. Also paragliders don't have to deal with the opening. In any case, I don't think that over-steering (skidding) is the major reason to put stabilizers on a tarp and if I had to take I bet, removing the stabilizers from a modern x-braced tarp won't induce much over-steer but it'd definitely make a difference in opening. I wish Joe would chime in on the subject.Memento Audere Semper 903 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nicknitro71 0 #48 June 28, 2006 QuoteI guess when Joe Bennet is not building gay houses for people he gets bored, and slices his Velocity up. My comment was not pointed to Joe but to me having seen I cannot leave any tarp I own the way it is Memento Audere Semper 903 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks 0 #49 June 28, 2006 Quote-They reduce wingtip vorticies thus reducing drag and increasing the efficiency of the tarp. huh? not having the stabilizers reduces drag. ---------------------------- anyway, without stabilizers the wing does not "slip" sideways. everyone thinks this for some reason, but it is not true. the turn continuing after you initiate it is perceived as the wing "slipping" but it is not, and it is just a characteristic of the JVX. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nicknitro71 0 #50 June 28, 2006 In theory stabilizers should act like winglets. The low pressure air of the top skin when it meets the high pressure from the bottom skin curls up forming vortexes hence creating a form of drag known as the induced drag. You are right assuming that stabilizers increase drag but only in the form of parasite drag. The idea is to come-up with a design that reduces the overall drag: too big stabilizers too much parasite drag, too small too much induced drag...Memento Audere Semper 903 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
