cessna54tango 0 #51 June 29, 2006 Quote Your pilot chute would be a good indicator of this. If the pilot chute is not directly behind the canopy and it is trailing off to one side or the other , then you are not in coordinated flight. hard to tell this when your pc and junk is stowed in your pouch like a real swooper Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #52 June 29, 2006 QuoteThe idea is to come-up with a design that reduces the overall drag: too big stabilizers too much parasite drag, too small too much induced drag... [Cue entry of the "Stabilribs"] These were designed and implimented on the Xaos more than 3 years ago....the answer to this question.....---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #53 June 29, 2006 QuoteI guess when Joe Bennet is not building gay houses for people he gets bored, and slices his Velocity up. I wonder if it affects the openings, and other flight characteristics of the canopy. You would think that the canopy would possibly begin to slip during turns. By slipping I mean that the canopy would slide sideways during the turn. Your pilot chute would be a good indicator of this. If the pilot chute is not directly behind the canopy and it is trailing off to one side or the other , then you are not in coordinated flight. Huh? I don't think so.....---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spizzzarko 0 #54 June 29, 2006 What part don't you agree with? If it was the pilot chute part I am refering to coordinated flight like an airplane. If an airplane is not in coordinated flight then it is sliding off to one side during a turn, kind of like a drift in a car. I'm sure parachutes can experience the same same thing. BTW it was good to see you when you here in Colorado. I hope things work out well for you in New York. Grant Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #55 June 29, 2006 I'm sure you can put a parachute into an uncoordinated turn, the P/C may or may not be an indicator of that. I do not think the stabilizers or lack there of would have anything to do with a "sliding" of the canopy. That would be evident on videos of landings.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spizzzarko 0 #56 June 29, 2006 I'm sure it would be more evident on an aircraft that is loaded 23:1 than on a canopy loaded 2.5:1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
micro 0 #57 June 29, 2006 QuoteThe stabilizers do several things: -They trap some air from escaping to the sides during deployment making the slider descent slower. -They reduce wingtip vorticies thus reducing drag and increasing the efficiency of the tarp. -They offer a convenient pace to put the slider stops. The vast majority of paragliders don't have stabilizers but then it could be argued that because the wing is so bowed with very narrow ends they do not need any. Also paragliders don't have to deal with the opening. In any case, I don't think that over-steering (skidding) is the major reason to put stabilizers on a tarp and if I had to take I bet, removing the stabilizers from a modern x-braced tarp won't induce much over-steer but it'd definitely make a difference in opening. I wish Joe would chime in on the subject. for canopies that use stabilizers, such as my largish fusion 210 (as opposed these little beach towels y'all are jumping ) does such a canopy REALLY go fast enough to make wingtip votices large enough to have a noticeable drag effect? granted, since I'm 240-250, depending on how many chipotle burritos (yum) I eat before jumping, that fusion can start to hum, but i didn't think that such vortices would have such an effect on drag... i could be sorerly mistaken however... I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #58 June 29, 2006 Ah, but most A/C don't have stabilizers.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #59 June 29, 2006 QuoteAh, but most A/C don't have stabilizers I think they call it a rudder. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spizzzarko 0 #60 June 29, 2006 There are vertical, and horizontal stabilizers on the empenage of an aircraft. This is where your flight control surfaces reside (with exception to the ailerons). Either way, I'm sure the uncoordinated flight of a parachute is a mute point anyways. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #61 June 30, 2006 QuoteQuoteAh, but most A/C don't have stabilizers I think they call it a rudder. The functions of the two are no where near the same.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #62 June 30, 2006 Say what? Wasn't the suggestion made that removing the stabs would cause instability along the yaw axis in turn? Last time I checked the rudder is the king of yaw-land when it comes to AC. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #63 June 30, 2006 And I suggested that stabilizers have nothing to do with yaw axis stability.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #64 June 30, 2006 QuoteAnd I suggested that stabilizers have nothing to do with yaw axis stability. It seems that stabs don't do much of anything. The JVX kicks ass without them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
darkwing 5 #65 July 1, 2006 Quote...for canopies that use stabilizers, such as my largish fusion 210 (as opposed these little beach towels y'all are jumping ) does such a canopy REALLY go fast enough to make wingtip votices large enough to have a noticeable drag effect? granted, since I'm 240-250, depending on how many chipotle burritos (yum) I eat before jumping, that fusion can start to hum, but i didn't think that such vortices would have such an effect on drag... i could be sorerly mistaken however... In the late 1970's I built a couple of canopies without stabilizers. After some jumps (maybe 50) I put stabilizers on. They flew better with stabs. These canopies were rectangular, about 200 sqft. -- Jeff My Skydiving History Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcosta 0 #66 July 5, 2006 The main reason behind a stabilizer is to reduce the wing tip vortices! Correct? Without stabilizers the wing tip vortices would roll around the outside edge of the canopy and make the canopy less stable and turbulent! Low aspect ratio canopies have larger wing tip vortices. On smaller high aspect ratio canopies these vortices are not eliminated because of the higher aspect ratio but are reduced significantly. They are reduced even more by making the canopy elliptical and reducing the thickness of the wing at the ends. Sub 110 elliptical canopies have very small wing tip vortices hence the reason Joe Benet didn't notice a large difference in performance when he removed them. The removal of them will reduce pack volume and most importantly reduce drag! Later! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
