freeflydemon 0 #126 May 7, 2007 Want to know: how much bigger will it pack than my crossfire2? Prices? Wing loads? Main differences with the crossfire2 (openings, trim, shape design, line set, freefly friendly?, front and rear risers feel...) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #127 May 7, 2007 QuoteWant to know: how much bigger will it pack than my crossfire2? Prices? Wing loads? Main differences with the crossfire2 (openings, trim, shape design, line set, freefly friendly?, front and rear risers feel...)-bigger (my 109 packs bigger than my Crossfire2 119, lines are longer too about 30-40 cm) price : depends when/where you buy. shape design : shape looks more or less like a crossfire lineset is vectran freefly friendly ? ? front & rear risers : light front risers not bad on rears. Slight tendancy to overturn so you must stop your turn earlier. It is more set to dive than a crossfire.scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflydemon 0 #128 May 8, 2007 thanks for the answers... whit "freefly friendly", I mean if I can use it for the every day jumping (terminal openings) and not just for swoop (subterminal openings). How do you evaluate the canopy compare it with the crossfire.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #129 May 9, 2007 the according to your definition, yes it's useable "daily". The rare "subterminal" openings were scary-slow. Higher performance than the crossfire, will not bring you back from long spots, Crossfire2 would nevertheless be a better "workhorse" (even if the perfomance is already very high)scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johnny1488 1 #130 May 14, 2007 Im interested on why you dont think the Neos won't get you back from long spots? I am loading mine at 2.3 and have no problems getting back to the DZ. Yes it was a higher decent rate than the xfire, but if you are on your shit, it is not hard to get this canopy to glide. It really moves on rear risers. Johnny --"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!" Mike Rome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #131 May 14, 2007 Quote Im interested on why you dont think the Neos won't get you back from long spots? I am loading mine at 2.3 and have no problems getting back to the DZ. Yes it was a higher decent rate than the xfire, but if you are on your shit, it is not hard to get this canopy to glide. It really moves on rear risers. There is a common MIS-conception out there that steep trim means you can't glide as far. Of course if you don't do anything other than release the brakes this is true, but as you mention, simply adding a little rear riser, or toggle (depending on the canopy) will make it go just as far (if not further) than a flat trim canopy. Keep spreading the gospel Johnny! Blues, IanPerformance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #132 May 14, 2007 OK OK I'm wrong. But I'll take anyday an outlanding in a chosen spot rather than taking a risk to have any kind of get-back-itis incident. But once you pop the brakes and do a control check you already lost some altitude and I don't like to hang on my risers for ages. OK I'm a lazy bastage too scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,989 #133 May 14, 2007 >Of course if you don't do anything other than release the brakes this is >true, but as you mention, simply adding a little rear riser, or toggle >(depending on the canopy) will make it go just as far (if not further) than >a flat trim canopy. That's definitely true. But if you make such adjustments to a canopy that's already trimmed flatter, you get similar improvements. In other words, a Katana 107 flown by a competent pilot will cover more ground than a Stiletto 107 flown by a less-competent pilot. If both are flown by competent pilots, though, the Stiletto will make it back from far worse spots than the Katana. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guinness_fr 0 #134 May 22, 2007 Although I have no data to back it off, I will tend to disagree with this statement. To me, (if we disregard bad designs) a canopy with a steeper trim has more control range with the rears, i.e. it will stall later than a canopy with a flatter trim with the same amount of input. You should be able to get roughly the same glide with both canopies, the only difference will be that you'll need more input on the steeper trimmed canopy. I have no problem getting back from long spots with my velocity, my only issue is that I want to be 900ft high before I begin my swoop so I need to be more efficient in getting back than if I didn't want to swoop (or I can land out, which I often don't mind doing). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trigger 0 #135 May 22, 2007 Think about how the shape of a canopy distorts when you pull down on the rears. To flatten out the glide of a steeper trimmed canopy=more distortion to the shape of the canopy when compared to a canopy that is trimmed flatter to begin with. Bill is right imo..CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #136 May 22, 2007 Quote To flatten out the glide of a steeper trimmed canopy=more distortion to the shape of the canopy when compared to a canopy that is trimmed flatter to begin with. Bill is right imo. Not imo Blues, IanPerformance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trigger 0 #137 May 22, 2007 Maybe so,but you're talking about two very different canopies .CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #138 May 22, 2007 Then there's little point to the discussion, no? If we can't compare because they're different canopies? Even if you compare the ST and the KA, IMO the KA will go further. Straight from the PD flight sheet Quote Straight Flight at Full Glide / Straight Flight in Brakes: At full glide the Katana flies at a slightly higher airspeed and at a steeper glide angle than the Stiletto. The Katana may feel a little “ground hungry” at first, but it actually has a greater speed range than the Stiletto. The Katana’s rate of descent will be noticeably lower when flying in brakes than it is at full glide, particularly when flying in deep brakes. The Katana and Stiletto have a similar rate of descent in deep brakes, but the Katana has a slightly higher forward speed. Once you’ve experimented with the Katana’s range of flight you will find it fairly easy to get back from long spots, or to hang in brakes after opening and let other canopies land before you. Just remember that we are comparing the characteristics of canopies that are the same size. Performance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trigger 0 #139 May 22, 2007 Yes,in case of ka vs st but you'd expect that of the ka,but again, when you pull on the rears you distort the shape of the canopy and a steeper trimmed canopy will distort more to achieve a 'flat' glide period. However the distortion produced could form a more efficient wing but i doubt this is the case..CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #140 May 22, 2007 QuoteHowever the distortion produced could form a more efficient wing but i doubt this is the case True, but you could definitely make the argument that a steep trimmed wing, even with the distortion of the canopy, is capable of the same (or further) flight compared to a flat trimmed wing. Blues, IanPerformance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trigger 0 #141 May 22, 2007 Agreed...some designs are aerodynamicly superior to other designs. Say,the ka is aerodynamicly superior to the Stiletto and in your experience,the Pilot for example..CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
agent_lead 0 #142 April 1, 2008 so whats up its been over a year and i still dont see this canopy on the website... no info about it basically anywhere? are they even trying to sell it?-------------------------------------------- www.facebook.com/agentlead Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CrazyL 0 #143 April 2, 2008 Yo, is'nt there rep at the ranch. jon? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
agent_lead 0 #144 April 2, 2008 i know theres a rep at the ranch but shouldnt this info be on their website already? not everyone has a rep at their home dz...-------------------------------------------- www.facebook.com/agentlead Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
svdree 0 #145 April 3, 2008 I posted a similar question in 'gear & rigging' recently. In response, I got a PM from someone at Icarus, telling me the Neos is available, and they advertise in Square1 and Paragear catalogues. I attached one of the pictures he sent me. It's too bad that they don't push it harder, judging from the reactions of people who've jumped one, this seems to be a really nice canopy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #146 April 4, 2008 why push harder ? I like to be part of the few who knows what the good stuff is scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johnny1488 1 #148 April 11, 2008 Since Wyat died last year, Icarus USA has been pretty much non existant. Email Hector and complain (not directed at Lead, just anyone in general. Johnny --"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!" Mike Rome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FLO13 0 #149 November 25, 2008 i've been searching for answers on the neos as well, and this is what i found: OK firstly- the minimum wing loading that we suggest for a NEOS is 1.8-2.4, with 2.2 being just about perfect. Now you can definitely fly at a 1.7 wing loading, but the performance will be a bit slower. We are working on getting all of the NEOS information on the website as we speak! I can give you a bit of info about it to tide you over until we officially release the NEOS document though! There are 3 key design elements that make the NEOS stand out among all other wings. 1. SICS (Synchronized Inflow Control System)- This is a new way of pressurizing the canopy during the opening sequence, by first lightly pressurizing the center 3 cells, which keeps the forward heading, and then after forward flight the outside 3 cells on the left and right will pressurize. 2. ARC (Advanced Rib Construction)- This is a more efficient way to brace the canopy. Instead of Cross-bracing (which does not fully brace the cell, where the top skin is pulled and airflow is disrupted) the ARC Bracing pulls off the center rib and supports span-wise with no tension on the top skin and no blank chambers. 3. ERAS (Enhanced Ram Air Stabilizers)- Instead of non-load bearing stabilizers these pressurized stabilizers help reduce drag, improve heading stability and aid in turbulence by becoming a vertical cell. Please let me know if there is any more information I can give you! Have a wonderful day! Blue Skies, Lauren Icarus Canopies U.S.A. P.O.Box 429 Pinebluff, NC 28373 Ph: +1 877 216 6958 ex. 1 Fax: +1 877 325 1876 i hope this helps. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
svdree 0 #150 November 25, 2008 Same thing here, been looking for info on the Neos for quite some time. I finally got all the info I needed when I requested a demo and put around 25 jumps on it last september. In short: I love it, and I have one on order. I jumped a 109, which gave me a wingload of 2.0. Is was quite fun to fly at that load, but I felt that I needed one size smaller, so I ordered a 104. This would put me at 2.1. A lot has been said about it in this thread, and most of it seems te be correct: openings are great; a bit faster than the crossfire, but very stable. Recovery arc is way longer than a similarly sized crossfire, and you're able to build up lots of speed. Mine should be here in february, can't wait... Edited to add: Some more info on the Neos can be found here: http://www.90percent.it/online/WebNews3-08.pdf (page 25-28) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
