airborne82nd 0 #26 December 29, 2006 sounds like you and i are in the same boat as far as performnce technique and wing loading on the crossfire i am trying to slow my turns also Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DiggerDan 0 #27 December 29, 2006 I like to start about tree top level and double front to telephone pole. Of course, I bail out on rears alot too, so take that with a grain of salt. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pendragon 1 #28 December 31, 2006 Actually some interesting reponses; I initiate a 270 on my xfire2 109 (at 1.8 lbs per sq ft) at 650 ft and a 270 on my Velocity 96 (at 2.0) at 700ft (actually more like 680ft using rears to plane out in the roll-out phase). 135 degrees at 400 ft and I think around 500ft for a 180. I start from half-brakes and use a single front riser (whilst leaning into the turn in the harness) to initiate. The reason why I said this was interesting was that, if you read above, you'll find exactly the same initiation altitutes for those canopies independently worked out by others. Out of interest, does anyone know whether the recovery arc (and initiation altitude) is predominantly determined by the canopy rather than the wing loading (which just changes the speed)?-- BASE #1182 Muff #3573 PFI #52; UK WSI #13 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cacophony 0 #29 December 31, 2006 With my Velo 96 I start 270s at around 650 to 700 feet. Same for a 90, but I don't have as much experience on those. For 450s I take it up to around 850 to 900. Its completely based on experience and is totally subjective. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aeronaut 1 #30 December 31, 2006 Quotesounds like you and i are in the same boat as far as performnce technique and wing loading on the crossfire i am trying to slow my turns also yes,,,my english is not very good, but to give you an impression of what i am doing: i start from brakes, release brakes and before the canopy reach normal glide speed, i switch to one front riser to initiate the turn, then quickly add the second front riser. i stop the turn when both fronts reach maximum input at the same time. then recover from the dive by smoothly releasing the fronts and using the recovery arc of the canopy. flare with toggles, surf minimum 150ft with my feet on the grass and land safely ON MY FEET from releasing to brakes to turning to flaring , it is one fluid movement. to slow down the turn rate , i have to work on the timing of the front riser input. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
morris 0 #31 January 6, 2007 Velocity96, Wingload 2.4, HMA, full RDS, 450degree, above 1100ft... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
br0k3n 0 #32 January 11, 2007 To all the people that begin their turn from half brakes, can you please elaborate as to why? My understanding was that the reason for this would be to reduce front riser pressure prior to initiating your turn, which would really only be necessary on a xbraced canopy with high riser pressure.. I recently did a bunch a jumps on a VX95 (JVX lineset) and to begin with found the front riser pressure massive, well compared to anything I had jumped before. However after several jumps I found that it was much easier and felt a lot better to approach on full drive, apply harness input for the first 90 then risers and finish on harness, and therefore not needing to start from brakes… Is this generally the case, or are other people using the half brake method for other reasons? What would the advantage be say if you are flying a canopy with light front riser pressure? For the record I 270 my Stiletto 107 (1.7) at 480ft from full drive.----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #33 January 11, 2007 Quote To all the people that begin their turn from half brakes, can you please elaborate as to why? My understanding was that the reason for this would be to reduce front riser pressure prior to initiating your turn, which would really only be necessary on a xbraced canopy with high riser pressure.. For the reason mentioned. You don't need a xbraced for having high front riser pressure. Other reason can be flying slower in holding area. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
br0k3n 0 #34 January 11, 2007 Quote For the reason mentioned. You don't need a xbraced for having high front riser pressure. correct, but that doesn't answer my question!!!! QuoteOther reason can be flying slower in holding area. Again not really answering the question, yes flying in half brakes will help you fly slower, but if you have had to fly your whole pattern right upto you final turn in brakes then you probably not really on top of what you are doing...----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crazydiver 0 #35 January 11, 2007 QuoteQuote For the reason mentioned. You don't need a xbraced for having high front riser pressure. correct, but that doesn't answer my question!!!! QuoteOther reason can be flying slower in holding area. Again not really answering the question, yes flying in half brakes will help you fly slower, but if you have had to fly your whole pattern right upto you final turn in brakes then you probably not really on top of what you are doing... Flying in brakes slows things down considerably in your pattern and makes the set up much simpler. The only reason, performance-wise, for beginning the turn in partial brakes is to decrease the load factor on the wing and potentially decrease the front riser pressure to begin the turn. In my opinion, if a person is able to set up without being in brakes...that is the desired way for me. If I am on a canopy that has super high front riser pressure, I use harness input. Don't slow the canopy down since you will only have to use part of your turn to regain that speed...and that is inefficient for the turn. If you do a 270...that will get your more out of that turn than stepping up to a 450, for example, to compensate for the decreased initiation speed. A full flight set up is much more difficult because of the forward speed and descent rate of the canopy being much greater. Cheers, Travis Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #36 January 11, 2007 QuoteAgain not really answering the question, yes flying in half brakes will help you fly slower, but if you have had to fly your whole pattern right upto you final turn in brakes then you probably not really on top of what you are doing... I do it for the first reason, the second is just a bonus. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #37 January 11, 2007 Pilot150 WL 1.5 80m for a 90 degrees 5-6 seconds (left) dive started from double fronts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
morris 0 #38 January 11, 2007 I´d be way more interested to hear (in addition)about your deviation/offset from the centerline of the course in nowind conditions... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #39 January 11, 2007 QuoteI´d be way more interested to hear (in addition)about your deviation/offset from the centerline of the course in nowind conditions... Hard to tell. I have not measured yet. I can fly with GPS some time and tell if you are interested. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AdD 1 #40 January 11, 2007 Jedei 136 at 1.7, I start at my 270 at 650'Life is ez On the dz Every jumper's dream 3 rigs and an airstream Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
